New Atmosphere, New Vision: Gibson and Whittemore Kick Off Invest in ME Conference 2016
Mark Berry reports on Dr. Gibson's introduction and Dr. Whittemore's keynote speech, at the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London.
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treatment for low NK cells -- Imunovir?

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by el_squared, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. el_squared

    el_squared Senior Member

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    Hello,
    This is a two-pronged question about NK cells and treatment.

    Can someone explain to me what the significance is of having low NK cell function? I was tested by the CFS clinic at Stanford and I was found to have little to no function.

    Stanford didn't give me any explanation of what the implications are of my test result. However, last night Dr. Bonilla wrote me saying there is a drug that can be purchased in Canada, shown to increase NK cells, Imunovir.

    But he didn't say whether this drug has a track record of improving the symptoms of ME/CFS patients. Does anyone know?

    thanks,
    Laura
     
  2. jpcv

    jpcv Senior Member

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    nk cells mission is to destroy viruses and cancer cells
     
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  3. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Good question. Not knowing much about the subject I'm not going to opine. I can tell you, however, that I am heterozygous for a somewhat rare(ish) (~3% of the population) mutation in the perforin gene (PRF1 A91V / rs35947132). If you have done 23andMe, or equivalent, you should be able to inquiry about your status as well.

    Additional info here:

    Chronic fatigue syndrome is associated with diminished intracellular perforin

    Summary
    Chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is an illness characterized by unexplained and prolonged fatigue that is often accompanied by abnormalities of immune, endocrine and cognitive functions. Diminished natural killer cell cytotoxicity (NKCC) is a frequently reported finding. However, the molecular basis of this defect of in vitro cytotoxicy has not been described. Perforin is a protein found within intracellular granules of NK and cytotoxic T cells and is a key factor in the lytic processes mediated by these cells. Quantitative fluorescence flow cytometry was used to the intracellular perforin content in CFS subjects and healthy controls. A significant reduction in the NK cell associated perforin levels in samples from CFS patients, compared to healthy controls, was observed. There was also an indication of a reduced perforin level within the cytotoxic T cells of CFS subjects, providing the first evidence, to our knowledge, to suggest a T cell associated cytotoxic deficit in CFS. Because perforin is important in immune surveillance and homeostasis of the immune system, its deficiency may prove to be an important factor in the pathogenesis of CFS and its analysis may prove useful as a biomarker in the study of CFS.
     
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  4. el_squared

    el_squared Senior Member

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    Yes so have ME/CFS patients who have increased their NK cells gotten better?
     
  5. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    In a clinical trial, the potent NK cell activity booster supplement BioBran MGN-3 did not improve ME/CFS.


    Note that there is a difference between low NK cell numbers, and low NK cells functioning/activity. It is the latter that you find in ME/CFS.
     
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  6. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    It sucks they didn't measure actuall NK cell activity in that trial (based on my reading of the full study, please correct me if I'm wrong.) In any case, this suggests a screw up in NK cells that just isn't correctable easily (perforin mutations, others?)
     
  7. el_squared

    el_squared Senior Member

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    Yes, I meant to say it was function that was low. What is MGN-3 -- is that related to Imunovir?
     
  8. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    You can just buy inosine if you don't have access to Imunovir. Inosine is similar in structure and is classified as a supplement rather than a drug, so you can buy it from anywhere. Other NK cell activity boosters that have had at least anecdotal evidence include LDN, andrographis, mushrooms (AHCC) and rice bran (gamma oryzanol).

    If you take a bunch of the above supplements I think you have a pretty good chance of increasing NK cell activity. The bigger issue is how it will affect your CFS. I get intolerable side effects from almost every immune / NK cell booster. If your immune system is already partly in overdrive, then these supplements will do little good, except maybe for LDN that is more an immune modulator rather than booster.
     
  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I have not read the full paper, but I imagine they did not measure NK cell function as the test is expensive.

    In the Prof Montoya video transcript in this post, he says of ME/CFS patients that:
    So one might guess that MGN-3 or other NK cell function boosters would likely work best for the 30% of patients with low NK cell activity. So perhaps if the MGN-3 study had selected only such patients, it would have gotten better results.


    I posted a list of NK cell function boosters here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
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  10. imitate-past-reign

    imitate-past-reign

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    If you have a moment, could you ask your physician why they do not infuse NK cells directly? If they are confident that it is a problem. It is Stanford.
     
  11. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    Shaitake Mushrooms (white and maitake I think).
    LDN
    inosine
    there is another one I cannot think of AHCC? Maybe.

    Fish Oil will Lower it, so just as you find things to increase avoid the ones that lower them.
     
  12. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    australia (brisbane)
  13. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    From the bleeding edge of medicine there’s ACT / AIET

     
  14. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    I've been taking andrographis for this purpose lately... Too soon to measure success/failure, but I can say that andrographis has been great for the past month I've been taking it... It helps w joint pain (well documented to help arthritis) and concentration (supposedly lowers brain inflammation)

    I second the caution re fish oil (epa/dha)... I cycle on/off it to avoid impacting nk cells; so far, that's worked, ie, I can still get the benefits w/o the downside.

    https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/intro-natural-killer-cells-increase-decrease/
     
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  15. el_squared

    el_squared Senior Member

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    So if fish oil lowers it, does that mean fish oil is bad for you? Weird.
     
  16. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11237929

    Apparently it's the EPA component in fish oil that is responsible for lowering NK cell activity. The study participants consumed nine capsules a day, which is not what the typical dosage is, so it might be a bit misleading. 1-2 capsules per day should probably not result in much decrease, at least I haven't felt any worsening at that dosage.
     
  17. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    Fish oil is what they give women who can’t get pregnant becuase high NKs. I used to take (. By doctor request) a lot of fish oil and I never could raise NK) so I quit it and email the Cfs doctor asking her but she never Answered me, I also ask in thi la forum and nobody replied. I have been off and need to meassure NK cells again, so I will see if the numbers finally improved. Will let you know
     
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