Transdermal B12 oils

[garyfritz]

Good luck with that. When I experimented with folate, I tried everything from 0 to 30 mg per day and didn't feel anything at any level. So I don't seem to have the folate need that you have. Right now I'm taking the Jarrow B Right multi and getting my folate there.

And good luck with the dental work! It can be daunting and $$ex$pensive$$. I've got 3 quadrants done, but the last one is the worst and the priciest -- a crown and an RC extraction & implant. Ugh.

 

[Athene*]

What a riot! @garyfritz He's gotten the same way with me. I have begun a note to him that begins, "Sorry if I've aggravated you..."!!

I'll get back to it. But for the moment, having reached the 3 splurps last night and sleeping fairly well between 12 and 7 (up only about 1/2 hour other than getting up to pee), when I put on the first dose this morning and took my divided dose of 12mb B2 with small tablets of molybdenum and zinc, and my 5,600mcg first of 4 doses of folate, within an hour I felt exhausted, weak and climbed back into bed. It felt like someone was sitting on my chest. Now, I'm thinking I just needed more folate, and when I took the same dose later this morning, the same exhaustion followed, though not as bad, and adding another 800mcg folate seems to have helped.

This has been my experience of taking the Adenosyl B12. It actually not only enables me to take more folate, it drives my folate need. Maybe much of what I have to heal is in the mitochondrial level. All of this high-level supplementation is a little dizzying, yet now if I don't do it, my symptoms are also disturbing. I'm between that rock and that hard place. But again, maybe the mercury will shift things. For the moment I haven't yet scheduled the work on my second quadrant. The first is barely healed...

And in the interim, I hope things even out...

@Kathevans Kath, the exhaustion after first high folate dose used to hit me hard until I followed it up an hour later with my potassium & C dose. (an hour because both C & potassium hinder folate absorption). These days I need to start off the day with potassium. If I try B12 or folate without potassium I get extreme fatigue (and feel low) and palpitations and chest pressure. I follow up the potassium about an hour and a half later with my folate & B12 high doses, and then whenever I take my next high dose B12 or folate I take potassium an hour later. Works every time. No fatigue, no palpitations or chest pressure. I believe I'm still triggering a huge amount of healing from decades of undiagnosed pernicious anaemia so I need the high dose potassium etc for now. Good luck! (I messaged you back just there by the way). I'm not here much these days, but am slowly improving and some days I feel really good.

 

[wiltedflower77]

Dr Myhill does a B12 oil that is cheaper but I have no idea how good it is or what absorption rate is in comparison. I am buying Gregs oils at the moment for my son but agree it is very expensive to bring in to the UK. Maybe try Dr Myhills first?http://www.salesatdrmyhill.co.uk/transdermal-b12-spray-50ml-48-p.asp £14.40

 

[wiltedflower77]

Thank you UKmum I had a look at Dr Myhills but it's only methylcobalamin and I'm not sure how well I do on that for so would rather stay clear.

 

[Chantal.p]

just placed my first order for gregs oils (i don't notice much benefit from the 12mg B12 sublingual methyl / 3mg adeno I currently take alongside 9mg folate). Wasn't sure which to go for so went for 1 bottle methyl, 1 bottle methyl/adeno, and 1 bottle of the "ice". Fingers crossed for some positive effects!

 

[zelda]

Have any of you guys figured out the rash/hives thing from the oils? I have used them for a couple of years now and am just starting to have this reaction. Today, hives and itching within an hour or so of application. (I have been following this thread since the beginning just don't tend to post much here). Anyone heard from Greg on this?? TIA

 

[garyfritz]

No, I haven't figured it out. I only recently realized how many people were seeing it. I first mentioned it to Greg over a year ago but he didn't say much beyond "that's interesting, there are some reports of that in the literature, but I haven't seen it myself."

I think I'll tell him at least 6-8 people I know of are showing it now. @Kathevans thinks she only gets it when she uses methyl oil, but I use almost exclusively ado/me. I haven't used anything else for several months.

I have several different types of bumps/rashes/lesions:

* Red spots or sometimes red bumps. I noticed these fairly soon after I started the oils. They don't usually itch.

* Itchy bumps. I believe these are similar to what others are seeing. I have these in only a few areas and they seem to persist in those areas -- they come and go, but they come back in the same place.

* Slightly rough/scaly itchy spots, not quite bumps. These have intense itching on a small spot.

These are all different to the itches I've had for decades, probably caused mostly by dry semi-desert air. I get areas with no apparent bump, rash, or anything else, but they itch like you wouldn't believe. For over 35 years I've used a cortisone ointment to keep this under control. I would apply a bit once or twice and the itch would go away for weeks or more. The ointment helps the "new" B12 itchies too, but they seem to come back quicker.

 

[zelda]

I think I'll tell him at least 6-8 people I know of are showing it now. @Kathevans thinks she only gets it when she uses methyl oil, but I use almost exclusively ado/me. I haven't used anything else for several months.

Thanks Gary, let me know what he says. These are hives in my case and a new thing, have been using the oils for a while now. At least a year, maybe two? I lose track.... I use both the Me and Ad/Me and today got them from the Ad/Me.

Interestingly, I am recently chelating AC style and wonder if there could be some sort of connection.

I get some strange itchy bumps also, not hives but red small bumps that look a bit like chicken pox, itch like crazy, then the next day are dried up and going away. Have gotten these mostly on my belly but also back and worse in the past when I was doing stuff to "detox" like sauna. They flare up on each round of chelation too. Hmmmmm.....

Wonder if your itchies could be related to metals? I understand you are in process of amalgam removal and prep for chelation.

 

[garyfritz]

LOL, who knows. The ACC people say everything from stinky feet to global warming is caused by mercury.

Yes I'm in the "prep" phase. I need serious work & a crown on one molar, and an RC extraction right next to it, and then I'll be done with the dental work.

I don't think I've gotten any bumps that "dry up." They just go away.

 

[zelda]

LOL, who knows. The ACC people say everything from stinky feet to global warming is caused by mercury.

Yes, it seems like there is a bit of a single focus in that group

Good luck with your dental work.

 

[SMPN]

I want to thank the so many of you on this and other threads that have provided so much valuable information. I've spent 6 months now reading and reading. I read the entire thread "The Hidden Story" and now this one too. I've just ordered my first bottle of B12 oil from Australia. I don't have ME/CFS, but I do have neuropathy and b12 issues and have struggled to find success with sublinguals and incorporate other cofactors. But, since my body had a very pronounced nerve reaction to small doses of methyl b12 (none to 18 months of hydroxy and adeno), I'm going with Freddd's theory that the reaction is positive and means my nerves need it. This isn't surprising- I've had low serum b12 and Spectra Cell b12 as well. Hoping I can incorporate some of the wisdom and information I've been reading. Thanks to you all. I cannot imagine that there is a better site and source of health information and supplement understanding anywhere on the web.

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

Thanks Gary, let me know what he says. These are hives in my case and a new thing, have been using the oils for a while now. At least a year, maybe two? I lose track.... I use both the Me and Ad/Me and today got them from the Ad/Me.

Interestingly, I am recently chelating AC style and wonder if there could be some sort of connection.

I get some strange itchy bumps also, not hives but red small bumps that look a bit like chicken pox, itch like crazy, then the next day are dried up and going away. Have gotten these mostly on my belly but also back and worse in the past when I was doing stuff to "detox" like sauna. They flare up on each round of chelation too. Hmmmmm.....

Wonder if your itchies could be related to metals? I understand you are in process of amalgam removal and prep for chelation.

I posted earlier about gregs response to my rash. This is now diminished following the changes made. I wasn't chelating heavy metals so I'm not sure this is the reason (although I do take high levels of vit c and a one dose of ala). I suspect there is a histamine connection. Methionine is used to remove histamine I belive so this reaction may be connected with high levels of histamine in the body? I can't work out though why the localised Reaction?

I also get the itchy chicken pox one offs on my torso. These tend to flare and subside, so again I suspect fluctuating histamine levels due to varying diet, methylation, pollen count etc.

I would also be interested if Greg has a more in depth answer to the rash.

 

[suraj]

I want to thank the so many of you on this and other threads that have provided so much valuable information. I've spent 6 months now reading and reading. I read the entire thread "The Hidden Story" and now this one too. I've just ordered my first bottle of B12 oil from Australia. I don't have ME/CFS, but I do have neuropathy and b12 issues and have struggled to find success with sublinguals and incorporate other cofactors. But, since my body had a very pronounced nerve reaction to small doses of methyl b12 (none to 18 months of hydroxy and adeno), I'm going with Freddd's theory that the reaction is positive and means my nerves need it. This isn't surprising- I've had low serum b12 and Spectra Cell b12 as well. Hoping I can incorporate some of the wisdom and information I've been reading. Thanks to you all. I cannot imagine that there is a better site and source of health information and supplement understanding anywhere on the web.

Appreciate your time spent in thorough reading and plans for fool proof implementation, but a bit of advice as i walked through the same path. Think beyond, look under the hood, as what could be the root cause of B12 deficiency. No doubt MB12 is magic Vitamin. but be warned when u take it in high doses with MFolate it could cause major adrenal issues (symptoms like CFS will pop up), which u will feel in 15-45 days from taking high does of MB12 with MetylFolate.

So my 5+yrs of understanding is mercury and heavy metals could be the cause of b12 issues (refer Dr Amy Yasko Metylation Diagram). so get ur mercury out ( silver fillings in Tooth, stop vaccinations) and then remove the existing mercury load from your body using Chelation (Dr Andy Cutler method ), along with LOW doses of MB12 and folate and may be freddds protocol { LOW dose [MB12+ADB12+Folate]+ L Carnitine+(ALA Criticaly in low frequent dosing)} should help u in long run. also other support as vit c,magnesium, zinc , salts, omega 3, vit E are all critical for atleast first 2 yrs. wish u all the best in your journey & speedy recovery.

 

[suraj]

Thanks Gary, let me know what he says. These are hives in my case and a new thing, have been using the oils for a while now. At least a year, maybe two? I lose track.... I use both the Me and Ad/Me and today got them from the Ad/Me.

Interestingly, I am recently chelating AC style and wonder if there could be some sort of connection.

I get some strange itchy bumps also, not hives but red small bumps that look a bit like chicken pox, itch like crazy, then the next day are dried up and going away. Have gotten these mostly on my belly but also back and worse in the past when I was doing stuff to "detox" like sauna. They flare up on each round of chelation too. Hmmmmm.....

Wonder if your itchies could be related to metals? I understand you are in process of amalgam removal and prep for chelation.

my wild understanding is it could be due to low histamin/ neutrophils, and lithium could help u get out of it. better off post ur question in ACC in FB, more knowledgeable and active people to help you.

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

just to balance the last comment. There is a lot of debate as to whether heavy metals are the root cause of b12 deficiency (this isn't an invite for a debate....since this is not a chelation thread) ....I think personally it can be many things. I have reduced b12 but I don't have any fillings and don't play with mercury or eat much tuna etc. I also know a lot of people with fillings that don't have a b12 problem. My particular problem is long term b12 and folate depletion due to a carbamazepine prescription leading to peripheral neuropathy. I also happen to have CFS which when it struck added to the problem.

The advice on low and slow is good though.....particularly folate. I don't think anyone can say any of these supporting supplements are "critical" with such confidence, since once you start the process you will find that the knowledge on the supporting supplements (such as ala, zinc, omega 3 and vitamin e) varies quite a bit from person to person. Magnesium and potassium seem to be a fairly consistent pattern though. Best bet is to track your symptoms daily to work out how fast or slow you are going.

I also wish you luck on your journey @SMPN

 

[suraj]

just to balance the last comment. There is a lot of debate as to whether heavy metals are the root cause of b12 deficiency (this isn't an invite for a debate....since this is not a chelation thread) ....I think personally it can be many things. I have reduced b12 but I don't have any fillings and don't play with mercury or eat much tuna etc. I also know a lot of people with fillings that don't have a b12 problem. My particular problem is long term b12 and folate depletion due to a carbamazepine prescription leading to peripheral neuropathy. I also happen to have CFS which when it struck added to the problem.

The advice on low and slow is good though.....particularly folate. I don't think anyone can say any of these supporting supplements are "critical" with such confidence, since once you start the process you will find that the knowledge on the supporting supplements (such as ala, zinc, omega 3 and vitamin e) varies quite a bit from person to person. Magnesium and potassium seem to be a fairly consistent pattern though. Best bet is to track your symptoms daily to work out how fast or slow you are going.

I also wish you luck on your journey @SMPN

Good point out. as i said above heavy metals "could" be the cause, may not be the only cause !! . also i mentioned refer to Dr Amy Yasko methylation diagram this will tell u who are more prone to b12 issues due to genetics. if people have strong genetics in those particular B12 recycling junctions / enzymes , they may not really have issue with b12 because of mercury / lead ( eg. silver fillings). rather their symptoms may show up else where , where their genetics are weak.

but since most people around here are affected by B12 recyling, so we "could" suspect mercury / heavy metals as possibility and no harm in doing further investigation like hair tissue mineral analysis to confirm this ( eg. derailed lithium transport ).

Just food for thought, mercury could have come from child hood vaccinations, and then topped up with low consumption of Tuna.

yes potassium, mag and vit c are more likely to pop up in most people, but other support supplements vary from person to person which they will discover eventually. Also we should understand that its hard to quantify or emphasis on supp like Omega 3 as we dont see drastic difference from day to day or week to week onn and off the supplement ( unlike Potassium etc). so we need to trust people who are doing studies in this domain, who say it is essentially required for myelination in long run.

Essentially Freddds protocol will work in long run (benefits 2-4Yrs and continue for rest of life) as it has ALA in it, which will remove Mercury. But how beneficial will it be if u remove the source of problem, IF IT WAS mercury. your recovery can be accelerated to 2 yrs as source of the issue is removed.

 

[SMPN]

Good point out. as i said above heavy metals "could" be the cause, may not be the only cause !! . also i mentioned refer to Dr Amy Yasko methylation diagram this will tell u who are more prone to b12 issues due to genetics. if people have strong genetics in those particular B12 recycling junctions / enzymes , they may not really have issue with b12 because of mercury / lead ( eg. silver fillings). rather their symptoms may show up else where , where their genetics are weak.

but since most people around here are affected by B12 recyling, so we "could" suspect mercury / heavy metals as possibility and no harm in doing further investigation like hair tissue mineral analysis to confirm this ( eg. derailed lithium transport ).

Just food for thought, mercury could have come from child hood vaccinations, and then topped up with low consumption of Tuna.

yes potassium, mag and vit c are more likely to pop up in most people, but other support supplements vary from person to person which they will discover eventually. Also we should understand that its hard to quantify or emphasis on supp like Omega 3 as we dont see drastic difference from day to day or week to week onn and off the supplement ( unlike Potassium etc). so we need to trust people who are doing studies in this domain, who say it is essentially required for myelination in long run.

Essentially Freddds protocol will work in long run (benefits 2-4Yrs and continue for rest of life) as it has ALA in it, which will remove Mercury. But how beneficial will it be if u remove the source of problem, IF IT WAS mercury. your recovery can be accelerated to 2 yrs as source of the issue is removed.

just to balance the last comment. There is a lot of debate as to whether heavy metals are the root cause of b12 deficiency (this isn't an invite for a debate....since this is not a chelation thread) ....I think personally it can be many things. I have reduced b12 but I don't have any fillings and don't play with mercury or eat much tuna etc. I also know a lot of people with fillings that don't have a b12 problem. My particular problem is long term b12 and folate depletion due to a carbamazepine prescription leading to peripheral neuropathy. I also happen to have CFS which when it struck added to the problem.

The advice on low and slow is good though.....particularly folate. I don't think anyone can say any of these supporting supplements are "critical" with such confidence, since once you start the process you will find that the knowledge on the supporting supplements (such as ala, zinc, omega 3 and vitamin e) varies quite a bit from person to person. Magnesium and potassium seem to be a fairly consistent pattern though. Best bet is to track your symptoms daily to work out how fast or slow you are going.

I also wish you luck on your journey @SMPN

Thank you. Actually, I know what the issue is. I was hit by Cipro in 2013 and it severely damaged my body and in particular my nervous system. But my b12 was always normal/high before then and plummeted to around 350 only 2 weeks after being poisoned by Cipro. Since I tried sublingual mb12 and my nerves were immediately fired up, I'm going on the theory that my body indeed needs it (from The Hidden Story). B12 didn't cause my problems, but it may indeed be limiting my recovery. I'm hoping that some strong supplementation might help. That's my current working idea...

And as for folate, I tolerate almost none at this point. No problem with it before mb12. But now, headache and sore throats within 2 days. And yes, I'm aware of potassium. I've read a lot on here!

 

[garyfritz]

I also get the itchy chicken pox one offs on my torso. These tend to flare and subside, so again I suspect fluctuating histamine levels due to varying diet, methylation, pollen count etc.
I would also be interested if Greg has a more in depth answer to the rash.

Greg can be quite the.... unhelpful sort when he chooses to be.

I asked about the rash, and he said "The oils are very good at solubilizing basically anything and curiously can even solubilize oil based paint. This also means that they have the potential to "take" anything small into the skin, and thereby cause a reaction. Thus, if you were in an allergen "heavy" area they could do that, particularly as allergens are very small. Whether that is what is happening, I don't know."

When I wondered how I could have been exposed to an allergen on my upper thighs (where I apply the oil), he said my laundry was "dried in air that could collect them." So by that measure, every piece of clothing could bear allergens.

He also informed me it wasn't possible to have the under-filled bottle I observed, but that's another story...

 

[Little Bluestem]

When I wondered how I could have been exposed to an allergen on my upper thighs (where I apply the oil), he said my laundry was "dried in air that could collect them."

I wonder how he knows how you dry your laundry?

 

[ahmo]

@Little Bluestem My impression is that Aussies use line drying more typically than dryers.