Thirst for MFolate, those that have ramped up

[sregan]

Having increasing lower back pain and assumed based on my history that this was due to adrenal's getting tapped out. I was taking the 450mg Jarrow Pantethine (good stuff) in the morning just after my SMP sups and ran out so reverted to my 25mg Sublingual Source Naturals which doesn't have the same punch. Gonna order some more of the 450's.

This morning woke feeling crappy, very poor quality sleep. Took my child to school and back home at 7:30. I wondered if the low back pain might be Potassium deficiency so I decided to pop 7 (99mg) K-Gluconate and one Magnesium Glycinate 200mg. Went back to bed, got some VERY good sleep the next hour and a half.

So not sure if Low Potassium is responsible for the low back pain (adrenals more likely). But taking did result in some great sleep. So I assume I am deficient somewhat and will supplement at a modest amount and using my sleep quality to guide me.

Basically I'm being bounced around quite a bit at 9mg but feeling many positives during this time.

Update: Back is still hurting (adrenals). Have the 450mg Jarrow Pantethine coming tomorrow.

 

[sregan]

Got my pantethine and feeling much better today. Back has been in pain for the last few days. Much better today. Seems like Pantethine will be part of my protocol.

Dr. Lam (Adrenal Fatigue Guy) on Pantethine

Also wanted to mention that I was feeling a little queezy/toxic a couple days ago and decided to take 6 activated charcoal caps. The following day started feeling very good for a while. I realized I have been neglecting the elimination part of boosting methylation. Logically speaking if one is boosting one of the primary forms of the body's detoxification system then one probably should do something to help escort the metabolized toxins that are released especially into the bowel from the liver.

I have use charcoal successfully to do this. The toxic material is released with the bile into the duodenum where it starts it's trek through the bowel. The portal vein brings substances back to the liver from the large intestine (presumably bile is expensive to make so it is recycled). The problem is that it seems to bring back a lot of the toxic material also that was released with the bile.

So the trick for me then is to take the charcoal, give it a minute or two to get past the stomach, then ingest fatty substance to cause a bile dump (oil capsules work for me). The charcoal (or other binder like bentonite clay or zeolite perhaps) can more strongly hold onto the bile-toxin matter and hopefully make it unavailable for re-absorption.

Also helpful is for me to take substances that can help my body produce bile so recycling is not such an aggressive priority. There are a lot of supplements to help this (Bile Salts or Artichoke). Or you can even just take Ox-bile which is readily available.

Note: this is not for every day. I might start doing once a week.

 

[SwanRonson]

So not sure if Low Potassium is responsible for the low back pain (adrenals more likely). But taking did result in some great sleep. So I assume I am deficient somewhat and will supplement at a modest amount and using my sleep quality to guide me.

Potassium is a mystery to me. It seems to be one of those minerals with such wide ranging effects that unless you're out-right in the danger zone, you can have symptoms that don't seem potassium related at all, yet are.

I just ran across this study today, linking low potassium strongly with low testosterone in men:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...194849de&pid=1-s2.0-0014579393803696-main.pdf

The topic is fresh on my mind since I took about 800mg of potassium in today so far (lowsalt with lunch, potassium gluconate with my breakfast smoothie) and have some very definite fog relief starting at about 3:00. It's been very nice. Love the low-fog days.

I just always have to be careful to take it with PLENTY of food or drink. My stomach is easily wrecked by potassium.

 

[sregan]

I'm a kind of a crossroads and need some advice. My adrenals feel borderline tapped out. I'm keeping them afloat with the 450mg Pantethine I'm taking each morning. My sore lower back does resolve quickly when I take the Pantethine. But it's kept me from pushing ahead on MFolate. I've actually dropped back to 6mg. I just noticed my angular chelitis has returned.

I believe I either have Gut bacteria issues (SIBO, Candida?) or Lyme perhaps. I believe that increasing the MB12 and MFolate may have prompted some die off. Which to me would increase my toxin load significantly and explain the depleted ardrenals.

I'm worried if I push ahead with MFolate am I going to completely crash my adrenals?

 

[SwanRonson]

Can you post your entire current daily vitamin/mineral regimen? Maybe someone could spot a hole.

Are you sleeping ok?

 

[sregan]

Can you post your entire current daily vitamin/mineral regimen? Maybe someone could spot a hole.

Are you sleeping ok?

I have in this thread actually click here

I'm thinking (hoping it's) potassium deficiency (mag also perhaps). I woke a few days ago in the morning feeling like I hadn't slept. Took 7 potassium (99mg) and 200mg mag and went back to sleep and it was wonderful.

This am same feeling.. Took a Mfolate went back to bed. 20 minutes later took 5 potassium and 200mg mag and back to bed. Felt much better. Was getting fairly anxious. I get some cramping in the calves when I suspect I'm low on mag or K but I really don't have any of the classic deficiency symptoms as of yet. I'm gonna start ramping that up a little and see if it helps.

 

[Coolie]

I have lower back pain since last summer but assume it's either mechanical or related to going gluten free which messes with your bowels. It's interesting to hear the vitimins could affect it.

 

[whodathunkit]

@sregan, that does sound like potassium. Ramping up your overall dosage of both potassium and magnesium for a while may be helpful. I think some people's potassium needs have gone as high as 3000mg/day. I mention that because IMO it's unlikely that you'll hurt yourself with it unless you take irresponsibly large doses. And somehow I don't think you're that kind of guy.

One thing about taking a bunch of potassium pills...they're more expensive than powder and can be "gut bombs". That is, taking potassium in pill form can cause stomach ache. Potassium pills hurt my stomach, but taking it powdered in some juice, and then eating right away, does completely away with the bomb aspect of it. I couldn't take high-dose potassium caps or pills, but high-dose powder was fine.

Also, my experience was that potassium needs came down and evened out as I got better. I can now get all the potassium I need from food.

Good luck!

 

[cobain_justinsane]

@sregan

I have been following some of your posts for the past few months. I have noticed that you have come a long way since the new year. Congratulations!

I have had trouble tolerating MethylB12 and Methylfolate with intensifying symptoms of anxiety, depression, euphoria and overstimulation.

I am going to try to to begin ramping up the supplements next week, how did you deal with side effects? Did you just push through them?

I know you mentioned that you have had troubles with moods when starting methylation supplements. Any advice on getting through the side effects?

Glad you're doing better!

 

[SwanRonson]

Potassium pills hurt my stomach, but taking it powdered in some juice, and then eating right away, does completely away with the bomb aspect of it.

I agree with that as well. Potassium is very hard on me, but potassium gluconate powder mixed in with a smoothie works just fine. Also, LowSalt mixed into soups works nicely.

 

[sregan]

@sregan

I have been following some of your posts for the past few months. I have noticed that you have come a long way since the new year. Congratulations!

I have had trouble tolerating MethylB12 and Methylfolate with intensifying symptoms of anxiety, depression, euphoria and overstimulation.

I am going to try to to begin ramping up the supplements next week, how did you deal with side effects? Did you just push through them?

I know you mentioned that you have had troubles with moods when starting methylation supplements. Any advice on getting through the side effects?

Glad you're doing better!

cobain thank you, still a work in progress though. There is a lot of the information you seek in this thread. Also please check out my blog there is more there.

The biggest thing for me has been to keep my MB12 ahead of my MFolate. I need more MB12 prob due to MTRR++ and MTR+/-. I have gotten behind a few times and payed the price with the nasty methyl-trap.

The Eletrolyte mix is pretty good (see MTHFRAde post on my blog).

Also you need to know what the symptoms are for Low Potassium and Low Folate going in and be on the lookout.

I would also suggest you calculate what you'll need and buy accordingly before hand. The enzymatic MB12 comes in bottles of 30 but the Solgar Mfolate comes in 100. For me I need like 3 MB12 for every 2 Mfolate right now. So I'd buy 4 bottles of MB12 (@30) for every 1 bottle of MFolate.

 

[sregan]

Wanted to note that since I ramped up it seems my fingernails are growing very rapidly! Anyone else notice that?

 

[whodathunkit]

I wish. My fingernails are still thin and tear easily. IMO when my fingernails and hair change for the better that's when I'll really know I'm healed (or rapidly healing). Despite gains in how I feel energically and psychologically, nails and hair still leave a lot to be desired.

Although it may be too much to ask for good nails. I've always had thin nails that tear easily, even when young and healthy and had hair like a model's.

Anyway, good for you, @sregan!

 

[skwag]

Wanted to note that since I ramped up it seems my fingernails are growing very rapidly! Anyone else notice that?

Hi sregan,

I do keep an eye on my fingernails. Thumb nails in particular. Mine develop horizontal ridges as they cycle in and out of strong and weak growth. I associate the weak growth with folate deficiency. Unfortunately, they are not a good immediate indicator since it seems the ridging only becomes visible weeks after the growth ( or lack of growth ) actually took place. Before I started Freddd's protocol, I was taking some folic acid supplememts and the ridging got very bad. These days it's mostly not noticeable. Anyway, I do find that the thicker nail growth is also faster.

 

[sregan]

I wish. My fingernails are still thin and tear easily. IMO when my fingernails and hair change for the better that's when I'll really know I'm healed (or rapidly healing). Despite gains in how I feel energically and psychologically, nails and hair still leave a lot to be desired.

Although it may be too much to ask for good nails. I've always had thin nails that tear easily, even when young and healthy and had hair like a model's.

Anyway, good for you, @sregan!

My nails seem to have been very bendable in the last few years. I wasn't sure if this was a good sign or not. It's kind of a bother now I have to cut them more often. Wondering also if I need more calcium because of?

 

[sregan]

Another revelation... As I ponder what to take next (added Lithium recently with the MB12), whether it might be TMG and/or SAMe. Not sure... But I do believe I have solved the recent adrenal mystery.

As I mentioned a couple of posts ago it makes sense that as we boost the methylation cycle we are gonna increase our excretion of toxins. Maybe some are rendered inert and maybe not (not sure exactly what happens after a stage 2 congugation pathway). The chart on this page seems to indicate a water soluble end product excreted through basically number 1 or number 2. I do know I've read that Stage 1 (p450) can produce things worse than the original toxin.

So, regarding the adrenal mystery... I haven't been as religious about taking my Vitamin C especially on the weekends. Seems Vitamin C is a very essential co-factor or me! I don't feel I have run into mFolate deficiency so much as that I'm getting toxic. The adrenals seem to be my guide on this.

As I bump up my mfolate I believe I need to ramp up liver support. Milk thistle is probably a good place to start except I thought it boosted glutathoine and that was supposed to be a no no on the SMP. NAC would be another good thing for the liver but I also thought that was on the no no list.

I will stick to the 2-3 grams of vitamin c per day, maybe more if I feel I need.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Milk thistle is probably a good place to start

My adrenals LOVE silymarin

P.S. I take just a few sublingual drops of a liquid extract taht normalized my body temperature

 

[whodathunkit]

And you just keep on knockin' 'em out of the park, @sregan!

I've been having some ramped up inflammation on my face ever since I got sick in December. Eyelids still inflamed (although vision is fine now and blood sugar much lower and more stable though first morning glucose not entirely ideal yet) and some inflammation across the bridge of my nose.

At first I chalked it up to "side effect" from the nootropics, but it's been ongoing, not improving, and maybe in the last couple weeks getting worse.

So I've been thinking about whether or not it could be toxin release from stored fat being metabolized.

Then your post. Serendipity, baby!

Seems also that choline (big part of my nootropic regimen) also lowers blood sugar and is a fairly potent detoxifier of the liver. So it could have played a role in my illness. Then, once the metabolic ball got rolling, inflammation has stayed high due to toxin release from stored fat. In addition to heavy gut regimen of fiber and probiotics, and altering my diet for good starches/PHD, I've been alternate day fasting to see how much it would help my blood sugar. As a result I've lost a fair amount of fat in a pretty short period of time.

Interestingly, I'm also experiencing some bumps on my forearms and the back of my upper arms/shoulders that traditionally show up when I've been behaving especially badly (taking in lots of toxins and things that are bad for me and my liver).

All pointing to toxin release.

My advice on milk thistle/glutathione and NAC: if you don't have known issues with them, try them to see what happens. They may help you. If you do have known issues then ponder hard before taking or just leave them alone. FWIW, ramping up glutathione production with milk thistle and glycine/glutamine/NAC did help me a lot when I was chelating

I get somewhat brain foggy on NAC but not bad. To my knowledge milk thistle doesn't bother me. Think I'll get some and give it another whirl. Plus up my vitamin C.

BTW, despite inflammation I'm still feeling pretty good energically speaking. I have more energy and motivation. I just want my skin to go back to normal. Given the amount of adipose I have to detox, however, no telling how long that will take.

 

[Sherpa]

@sregan

I had a horrible, debilitating, excruciating cause of Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome. Pantethine was extremely helpful for me. I took very high doses for several months when I was adrenally crapped out. Vitamin C was - high dose - mixed ascorabtes - liposomal - fat soluble - several time a day - was ultracritical too.

I focused on adrenals and stabilized their dysregulation before I startd to treat my mitochondrial damage / chronic fatigue / MTHFR, etc.

 

[SJB944]

@sregan "The biggest thing for me has been to keep my MB12 ahead of my MFolate. I need more MB12 prob due to MTRR++ and MTR+/-. I have gotten behind a few times and payed the price with the nasty methyl-trap."

What were the symptoms of Methyltrap, are they the same as folate deficiency/insufficiency?