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The Undetectable Infection

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Elph68, Nov 30, 2013.

  1. dom_hend123

    dom_hend123

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    @Elph68
    I have shown Ureaplasma and Enterococcous bacteria on tests. What do you suggest I fight first. I ask because you state macrolides, doxy, moxi etc make things worse but they are the only abx that work on Ureaplasma. Is Enterococcous the underlying superbug issue causing the Ureaplasma to latch on as opportunistic bacteria, therefore kill Enterococcous first?

    Thanks
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  2. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    @dom_hend123 - Ken Lassesen has recovered 3 times from CFS by treating his gut infections/overgrowth. He is fully recovered now and has been for at least a few years or so.

    This chart below is what his research into killing pathogens in the gut with herbs found. Notice that one of the columns is for Enterococcus.




    upload_2018-5-13_11-40-36.jpeg

    He has blogged extensively about his experience here.

    Jim
     
  3. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Hi @dom_hend123, sorry I have been a bit elusive, I have had to move house but I have had to renovate the one I was moving into before it could happen. So I will try and help out as much as I can.

    I know you are referring to a specific condition and would like to know more about China and any possible side effects from treating prostatitis.

    The question I am asked the most about is erectile dysfunction after treatment. I can only speak from personal experience and my knowledge of the people I was there with. I was there for 6 weeks in total and had over 90 injections into my prostate. I also had 10 days of IV abx and 7 days of urethra filling ..... I would certainly do it all again. I have had no side effects. I was over there with 4 other Australians, one of them was on his second visit and we are still in contact with each other. None of them have had any side effects either. Apart from that, I can't say.

    Enterococcus and ureaplasma are both known causes of prostatitis, so by presenting your test results to a local uroligist you may be able to convince them to treat you ...... Personally, I would still go to Changsha because they use 'hot shots' administered locally ..... thus reducing the systemic microbiota damage that the broad spectrum abx will do taken orally. There is also very little chance of abx resistance development because the bacteria receive a high dose administered locally. I had almost instant relief from the burning after the first injections.

    The second question that you need to ask is are these the cause of your CFS issues or are they just a symptom of a bigger underlying problem. This is something I am feeling more confident now about answering.

    One of the questions that is constantly asked is 'These bacteria are found on everybody, so why am I so sick (CFS)?' Ureaplasma is very common and it does not effect most people. Enterococcus is also very common and again it does not affect most people. These bacteria generally only affect the elderly or when they are given an opportunity. The answer to this question is our immune system.

    I believe the reason our bodies over react to many of these bacteria is because we have an underlying problem that has caused our immune system to dysfunction. It is likely that our immune system is overstimulated and therefore over reacts to all sorts of conditions/toxins that don't affect other people. I have stated previously that I believe that one of the causes of this overstimulation is polysaccharides.

    Enterococcus in the prostate .... very bad. Treatment for enterococcus prostatitis is moxifloxican for 4 to 6 weeks, with a high chance of relapse. If you have been previously treated with Ciprofloxican, moxifloxican probably won't work, and you end up with some very nasty abx resistant superbugs in your microflora. Any treatment you do will also need to be duplicated in your partner. Both of these can take up residence in the cervix.

    Long term, these bacteria cause cancer .... So the longer you leave them in there, the more likely you will be dealing with a bigger problem later on.

    I hope this information helps.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  4. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Hi @knackers323, sorry, I missed this one....

    Currently I use:

    Fish oil caps
    Glucosamine
    Proteolitic enzymes
    Natural vitamin E
    Vitamin K2-7
    magnesium
    CoQ10
    xylitol eye drops
    iodine drops
    Prescript assist SBO's
    Horny Goat Weed
    D-lactate free probiotics
    milk kefir
    yakult
    Daily sunshine

    I also follow a paleo style diet .... without the fruit/honey

    Cheers.
     
  5. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    Cornwall, UK
  6. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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  7. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    I know there are some people who have struggled with acne in the past. The bacteria that causes acne is found in the hair follicles of pretty much everybody. So why do some people suffer and others don't? There is a strong argument that suggests it is due to the other bacteria that inhabit the skin.

    Hair follicles use glucose as their main food source,so at the base of follicles there is easy access to 'sugar'. Resident bacteria can invade the hair follicle, consume the sugar, convert it to polysaccharides, set up an inflammation which compromises the immune system allowing acne to do its thing ......

    You may be interested to know that Staphylococcus epidermidis is implicated in this affliction. This article is worth looking at if this area is relevant to you.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1027811715001457
     
  8. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Hi @lorazapora , I thought you may find this article relevant. Like you I have been dealing with the option of root canal treatment because of cracked teeth. My problem was the nerves could not be deadened, he said the whole nerve was infected, but there was no abscess.

    This is a good article as it explains that what pathologists have been calling 'normal flora' or a contaminant is in fact the root cause of the infection .....

    http://jcm.asm.org/content/48/11/3859.full

    For those who really can't understand why pathology tests 'can't find anything' may like to just look at this article also. And again, it is our good friend Staphylococcus Epidermidis ....

    The undetectable infection has always been there .... the pathologists just aren't looking for it ......
     
    xrayspex likes this.
  9. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    @Elph68 , in the earlier stages of my ME, when I thought it was a type IV food sensitivity, my rosacea severity correlated with the immune system activation. If I ate something that made me feel worse, my skin flared up. If I was feeling a bit better, my skin cleared up. I'm not sure of the specifics about why it worked that way, but I thought it was an interesting correlation.
     
    percyval577 and Elph68 like this.
  10. deeterm

    deeterm

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  11. dom_hend123

    dom_hend123

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    @Elph68
    I have had Enterococcous and Staph Epidermidis detected recently at levels of about 10^5 in semen. Will be undergoing Phage therapy in Georgia this week. Mean while I've had 3 PCR tests and 2 growth tests negative for Ureaplasma. I ve developed a sore throat on/off and red, burning, itchy eyes and my nose is constantly stuffed with dried mucus. No CFS as of now, just proatatitis and above symptoms.

    Do you you think all these symptoms are caused by a dormant Ureaplasma infection, or its these Enterococcous and Staph. Epidermidis infections?
     
  12. lorazapora

    lorazapora

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    Hi Elph, thanks I really appreciated your quick response, support and helpful advice. How is your health these days?

    Just wanted to update you as I have just got back my results from the 2 week urine broth culture where they eventually found 3 enterococous colonies and some E. coli infection (it’s so bad that all the standard urine tests I have had over the years came up negative as they are not using effective testing methods in the UK and there only seems to be one or two Urologists in the country who send off these broth cultures) I also got the results in from my GI map pathogen plus stool test showing I have over 100x the normal levels of Enterococous Faecium and Faecalis as well as very high Morganella spp. and high Streptococous spp. and Klebsiella pneumoniae.

    Feeling relieved now that all my root canal infections have been removed as each time one was removed I got very ill for a few days with very bad chest pains and tight breathing and I’ve also had a lot of the pins and needles and numbness in the extremities problem (I agree that enterococous could be triggering this) Thankfully these symptoms are starting to ease a bit now but the bladder and lower abdominal pains and bloating are still severe. The urologist put me on 2 weeks of Macrobid and on day seven I actually have worse Urethra and bladder burning pains so it doesn’t seem to be working.

    Today I have just bought some Thyme oil (now that I now what I’m dealing with) as in @ljimbo423 ‘s table of natural antibiotics (which was so helpful by the way thanks for sharing) it comes out as the most potent natural antibiotic against enterococous which I checked is backed by research. Praying that this is nature’s potent antibiotic answer to my current pains. I wonder if it may help my issue with red spots on face too as nothing has been able to shift them.
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  13. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    Hi lorazapora- I'm glad you have found that herb table helpful.:) It's helping me a lot too. I don't know if Thyme oil will help the red spots on your face but many skin problems can be traced back to the gut.

    Thyme oil is very strong stuff. It could cause a strong die-off effect. I would start with a very low dose and see how you react to it for 3 days.

    Then use that as a gauge to your dosing. The reason I say to stay on the same dose for 3 days is that it often takes 3 days for the full effects of die-off to be felt.

    Jim
     
  14. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    what do you do for rosacea? I have had problems this year, and only recently figured out what it was... I thought it was acne, which is weird b/c I've never had an acne problem, or maybe some kind of bacterial infection. I don't know too much about rosacea and am trying to learn
     
  15. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    I don't do anything for rosacea. I don't have a social life, so I don't care much about my appearance. Some days I notice painful spots, some days I don't. I simply don't find it important enough to even think about. If I do notice that it's particularly bad on a given day, I think about what might have activated my immune system.

    I do wonder if immune system activation is a prime factor in rosacea severity in non-ME/CFS people. A quick googling shows that some research is showing that it might be true.
     
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  16. percyval577

    percyval577 Senior Member

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    In all the last three autumns both my rosacea and my me/cfs have been vanished parallely for about 5-14 days (elevating melatonin, I think).
    Accordingly, to treat my rosacea topically was not a good idea, because instead my me/cfs grew higher then (pretty uncomfortable). So I am realy happy with my rosacea. One doctor though gave me a warning: "If you suddenly feel blurred or if you are lacking speech, you must immediatly call an emergency. It would be a sinus trombosis."
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
    MeSci likes this.
  17. dom_hend123

    dom_hend123

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    Can Thyme Oil be consumed orally to fight Enterococcous in intestines and prostate? If so what supplement and dosage is ideal?
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  18. lorazapora

    lorazapora

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    Not sure, but it would be interesting to see if there is any research on this. I have been taking Thyme supplements because it is quite hard to find a pure organic Thyme oil from a trusted source.
     
  19. lorazapora

    lorazapora

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    So... my lyme test finally came back and it turns out that I am positive for a Babesia infection.

    I thank God for the internet, alerting me to the issue of massively under diagnosed Lyme & co-infections. I am assuming this was from the bed bug bites I got in London over 5 years ago. It explains a lot of the symptoms I have been having ever since such as rapid tooth decay. constant thirst, tiredness, fibromyalgia, synergy with mould issues. etc.

    I am happy that I now know what I am trying to treat and have started on some pulsed high dose Artemisinin to try and treat this. Seems to be working as I have had some clear die off symptoms. @ljimbo423 yes you were right haha the thyme oil is very strong so I should have been more careful on the face idea, maybe it would help in more a diluted form though.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2018
    Mel9, Art Vandelay and ljimbo423 like this.
  20. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    ljimbo423 likes this.

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