The Societal Consequences of Pasteurized Milk Laws 3/13/17

[Manganus]

Thanks, @RogerBlack , for the link to South Africa.

The distinction between The west and The rest is of no use when people move around as much as nowadays. The vector that's introduced resistant strains in the West is obviously people born elsewhere.

(With regard to the question "which came first?", I personally suspect that the resistant strains have thrived in humans under treatment.)

One question remains, that I (at this moment) have no answer to:
Once we have resistant TB in the society, will the resistant strains infect animals (cows), or won't they?

I disagree, I think the comments go to the heart of the debate. There is very little in the article about the health benefits of pasteurised vs unpasteurised milk and that is because the argument here is a very weak. Nutritionally it's hardly different at all. There is an argument about enzymes and possible the benefit of some "good bacteria". (Can't believe I've had to use that phrase), however this marginal and very debatable perceived benefit is blown out of the water by the enormous downside which is serious illness and death due to microbiological contamination.

Here I'm less convinced. I have always believed that the "good bacteria" (no, I do not like that term) are of importance for the immune system.

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

Thanks, @RogerBlack , for the link to South Africa.

The distinction between The west and The rest is of no use when people move around as much as nowadays. The vector that's introduced resistant strains in the West is obviously people born elsewhere.

(With regard to the question "which came first?", I'm personally suspect that the resistant strains have thrived in humans under treatment.)

One question remains, that I (at this moment) have no answer to:
Once we have resistant TB in the society, will the resistant strains infect animals (cows), or won't they?



Here I'm less convinced. I have always believed that the "good bacteria" (no, I do not like that term) are of importance for the immune system.

I think there are safer ways of getting some of the perceived beneficial bacteria than drinking raw milk.

My objection to "good bacteria" is based on the fact that no one really knows what these are or have any real tangible proof that consuming them really will have a lasting impact. This is because it's a wild a diverse ecology in the gut and the variables are immense. My own belief is that we need a serious amount of research in this area before anyone can realistically prove any products they sell have a beneficial effect. Probiotics have had all their health claims removed by the EU for this reason.

In the meantime it is advisable to eat a balanced and diverse diet to keep you biome healthy and in balance. That's really the only sound advice we can take.

It is ironic that many of the proponents of probiotics also recommend restriction diets. This is counter intuitive to me since by eating a less diverse diet you are making your biome potentially a lot worse than anything you would consume from a small bottle or a pill.

In the main there is a lot of claptrap out there and it's no wonder people get confused in terms of what is good for them.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Have you seen how mucky farms are

Not all farms are mucky, only those where too many animals are crowded onto too little land. The article says, "Raw milk absolutely must be produced from healthy cows fed on healthy feed (or pasture raised) in clean conditions that produce milk low in bacteria". This would cost more money, but no one is talking about outlawing pasteurized milk. Those who wanted it could get it.

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

Not all farms are mucky, only those where too many animals are crowded onto too little land. The article says, "Raw milk absolutely must be produced from healthy cows fed on healthy feed (or pasture raised) in clean conditions that produce milk low in bacteria". This would cost more money, but no one is talking about outlawing pasteurized milk. Those who wanted it could get it.

Yes it's still very very risky though no matter how clean you think your cows are. Animals defecate and cows walk around in fields .....you can't avoid contamination completely you just have to control growth with raw milk and ensure that what is contaminated doesn't have any pathogenic bacteria that could cause harm. That's why you have to monitor contamination and positively release by testing before you ship. The only way to control growth is by controlled refrigeration and reducing shelf life.

The problem with non pasteurisation is that you don't kill the pathogens. The other problem is that unlike a sandwich or a pie, milk has far more nutrients immediately available for rapid bacterial growth, so the risk lies not only with contamination but rapid growth if you don't get the process absolutely right? If you purchase and consume any food product you are at risk of getting food poisoning, since sometimes the safeguards fall down due to human error etc. With raw milk, your risk is massively more than most other products and if you get it wrong you are far more at risk of getting seriously ill and dying.

The solution to animal welfare is nothing to do with whether the milk is pasteurised of how its processed, it's to do with animal welfare standards and policing them. To try and link raw milk to good animal welfare is just contrived.

I think it's a bit strange for the article to spout social values, but not offer a solution that would be available for everyone? That's not a free choice when the cost and practical availability is prohibitive to most people. Unless the article was encouraging some kind of elitism where raw milk consumers could look down on the masses that didn't ...well I suppose the ones that didn't die of food born diseases could be smug about it I suppose?

 

[Little Bluestem]

My grandfather had a milk cow and we got milk from him for several years. It is not as difficult as you seem to think to keep a cow clean. You keep the barn clean and the pasture picked (manure removed). You wash the cows teats before you start milking. When you are milking into a pail, equipment sterilization is not a big task.

There a lot of things in the world that cost and practical availability make prohibitive to most or some people. I don't think that means they should be outlawed. I have never eaten a truffle and probably never will. On the other hand, I buy my eggs from a non-farming family who keep some non-commercial chickens on their small acreage. They cost more than commercial eggs. There are people in this world to whom non-commercial eggs are not available and perhaps people in this town who cannot afford them, but I feel neither smug nor guilty.