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The PACE Trial – The Results

PhoenixDown

Senior Member
Messages
455
Location
UK
This is the whole quote that's relevant to the PACE Trial results:

"Today there is an emerging consensus that CBT can moderately improve outcomes in a minority of people with ME/CFS, benefiting around 10 to 15% of patients over and above the benefit of standard medical care...
Right, they've mentioned the pros but what they forgot to mention is the cons, the huge damage their ideology causes, the hammer that destroys patient's support networks by misleading them into thinking the patient can not get permanently worse, can not suffer from exercise, must not be helped in to a "sick role", has an unfounded fear of exercise, that objective abnormalities are only due to de-conditioning or that abnormalities are otherwise benign, etc, etc.

Once you factor that danger, then the 10% -15% isn't really worth it, if CBT/GET were a drug, they were be banned due to side effects.
 

Bob

Senior Member
Messages
16,455
Location
England (south coast)
Right, they've mentioned the pros but what they forgot to mention is the cons, the huge damage their ideology causes, the hammer that destroys patient's support networks by misleading them into thinking the patient can not get permanently worse, can not suffer from exercise, must not be helped in to a "sick role", has an unfounded fear of exercise, that objective abnormalities are only due to de-conditioning or that abnormalities are otherwise benign, etc, etc.

Once you factor that danger, then the 10% -15% isn't really worth it, if CBT/GET were a drug, they were be banned due to side effects.

Yes, all those false theories are destroyed by the PACE Trial results.
And we don't yet know the 'deterioration rates', which might be equal to, or worse than, the improvement rates.
 

Bob

Senior Member
Messages
16,455
Location
England (south coast)
This is the first time I've ever seen the correct figures published anywhere...
It's in the latest issue of ME Research UK's 'Breakthrough' magazine.

Talking about CBT, it says:
"... benefiting around 10 to 15% of patients over and above the benefit of standard medical care, as shown in the results of the 2011 PACE Trial..."

This is the whole quote that's relevant to the PACE Trial results:

"Today there is an emerging consensus that CBT can moderately improve outcomes in a minority of people with ME/CFS, benefiting around 10 to 15% of patients over and above the benefit of standard medical care, as shown in the results of the 2011 PACE Trial, and in the finding of ME charities' surveys of their members."

Breakthrough magazine is online now.
See the Autumn 2012 issue, page 14, first column, under 'Netherlands':
http://www.meresearch.org.uk/information/breakthrough/index.html
 
Messages
15,786
Breakthrough magazine is online now.
See the Autumn 2012 issue, page 14, first column, under 'Netherlands':
http://www.meresearch.org.uk/information/breakthrough/index.html

A couple of the researchers have Revant.nl emails, which does both physical and mental rehabilitation. So at best they subscribe to the deconditioning theory, though I'm sure they think counseling for false illness beliefs is also necessary. They guarantee that they will get people with pain, FM, CF, fatigue, burnout, and mental health problems back to work in 8 weeks and all fixed up in 15 weeks :cautious:

From the protocol:
Primary outcomes are fatigue severity and quality of life. Secondary outcomes are physical activity, psychological symptoms, self-efficacy, causal attributions, impact of disease on emotional and physical functioning, present-centred attention-awareness, life satisfaction, patient personal goals, self-rated improvement and economic costs.
So the primary outcomes are focused on questionnaires again, and physical activity is going to get buried if it gets mentioned at all.

They're also using the CDC definition of CFS, so ME is optional.

Different predisposing, precipitating and perpetuating factors play an important role in the aetiology of CFS [3]. Lifestyle and personality characteristics like neuroticism and introversion are examples of predisposing factors for developing CFS [3,12]. Acute physical of psychological stress are precipitating factors that may trigger the onset of CFS [13]. Cognitions, beliefs and attributions about complaints and behavioural factors such as persistent avoidance of activities are associated with an increase of symptoms [14]. Other perpetuating factors are a strong belief in a physical cause of the illness, a strong focus on physical sensations and poor sense of control over the complaints. Social processes, for example lack of social support, also contribute to the perpetuation of CFS [15].
More of the usual bullshit, assuming that by "social support" they mean putting social pressure on the patient to change their behavior and cognitions.