T.V. Doctor exposes bogus gay 'cures'

[Daffodil]

this thread brings to mind a scene from the movie Bruno, where sasha baron cohen visits a religious leader who tries to convert gay men. it was absolutely hilarious.

submit to the nearest male in your environment, eh? scary thought lol

 

[peggy-sue]

As he pointed out in the programme, it is a matter of very serious concern that 16-17 year olds are so uneducated (or indoctrinated) that they believe in such outlandish things as demons possessing folk to make them gay.
You'd expect that in a remote indiginous population somewhere, not in mainstream western culture.

 

[golden]

Try googling "gimp mask" under an images search. @golden
It's an S/M bondage sort of thing...

Showing my age here, I'd far rather have Dr. Michael Mosely. He's really good at experimenting on himself and debunking loads of myths.
He also has a more lived-in and interesting face than this young chap.
Besides - this youngster obviously works out in a gym (and probably uses a sun-bed)
so, he's far, far too vain for me.
And what a waste of time and effort in a gym - you could be doing something far more interesting, outside.

I am certain I dont know what you mean Peggy-Sue!

Meet Lovely, sweet Manjushri anyhow

This is Black Manjushri, the wrathful manifestation. Buddha of the Raggy Dolls. Buddha of the Incurables such as AIDS and Cancer, M.E.etc and of the negative emotions that can arise from the physical illness when people mistreat us.
And last but not least, if you should happen to cut down a tree on an astrologically inauspicious day this is the Buddha to help out....so well worth book marking

 

[golden]

As he pointed out in the programme, it is a matter of very serious concern that 16-17 year olds are so uneducated (or indoctrinated) that they believe in such outlandish things as demons possessing folk to make them gay.
You'd expect that in a remote indiginous population somewhere, not in mainstream western culture.

I dont entirely disbelieve in demons, I realised. However I err deeply into zen, which is just awareness of what is -

I dont believe there are demons to turn people gay though!

Belief is a funny thing.

My evangelical neighbour wrote a book (terrible book) and it mocked the native tribes of Africa for believing that if a woman gave birth to two babies, then she had had sex with two men at the same time and the babies would have been drowned. Such silly belief, she wrote.

And yet she went over there preaching of the Virgin Mary - giving birth without having sex at all!

I dont mock anyones beliefs... but I found this a tad hypocritical.

 

[peggy-sue]

There is a huge difference between having beliefs and imposing those beliefs on others.

I can respect anybody's private beliefs, but if it comes to a situation where beliefs are allowed to overrule knowledge and folk who do not share those beliefs get harmed, then something is very, very wrong indeed.

 

[golden]

Yes i agree PS.

It tends to be collective belief that causes biggest problems. And more so the beliefs we are born into that we perceive as 'fact'.

Not a fan of sophistry.

 

[Calathea]

There's still plenty of homophobia in the NHS. I've experienced a GP who made charming remarks about "revolting faggots" (I'm bi, and the friend pushing my wheelchair was fairly clearly gay), and a psychologist (psychiatrist?) who was doing some fairly nasty victim-blaming over an entirely unrelated issue, and told me it was my fault for being bisexual. Of course, there's also still plenty of racism, sexism, transphobia, disablism and no doubt whorephobia and a few other things in the NHS as well.

I must say, it took longer for this discussion to get to BDSM than I expected.

 

[peggy-sue]

Michael is seriously an all-male man. He is also remarkably sensible.
He thinks gay men are wonderful. He thinks there aren't nearly enough of them around.

They're not in competition with him for the women, so his chances are better.

 

[golden]

There's still plenty of homophobia in the NHS. I've experienced a GP who made charming remarks about "revolting faggots" (I'm bi, and the friend pushing my wheelchair was fairly clearly gay), and a psychologist (psychiatrist?) who was doing some fairly nasty victim-blaming over an entirely unrelated issue, and told me it was my fault for being bisexual. Of course, there's also still plenty of racism, sexism, transphobia, disablism and no doubt whorephobia and a few other things in the NHS as well.

I must say, it took longer for this discussion to get to BDSM than I expected.

what is BDSM standing for? (edit: no worries...i googled it and it came up....thought it was a PR abbreviation).

Yes, I agree about the NHS. Thats horrible thing to endure.

My neighbours are a married gay couple of 25 ish years or so and they went to the local G.P. Feedback. Session.

There was a big row when they brought ip how crap they were being treated because they were gay. The staff tried to silence them and usher them away however they werent having it and wanted the feedback aired openly and honestly.

 

[peggy-sue]

Some slightly reassuring news about a certain well known anti-gay "religious" group/family.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26669967

I do hope that, following the loss of their leader, this really, really nasty little cult's machinations will wither and die. They might even get lives for themsleves.
Thankfully, they were banned from entering the uk.

What on earth do folk like that hope to achieve? Why the hatred?
Honestly, why? What is there to hate?
I don't consider it to be my business what anybody else wants to do in private with a consenting partner - whether they are gay or straight.
What has that got to do with the sort of person they are or whether or not you want to spend time with them?
Do you ask about the sexual habits of every person you meet and proceed to judge them on that?

There is nothing gay couples do that straight ones can't, (and vice versa, with a bit of imagination and/or equivalents) and I gather from reading surveys that heterosexual men are the ones who are all keen on getting anal - and I personally know gays who don't go in for that.

 

[golden]

I am finding cognitive problems with the problems this thread raises.

Many themes intertwined.

The NHS 'science'
Religion in the NHS
Religion outside the NHS
Alternative 'cures' - both religious and non-religious
Psychiatry
And how all this parallels with M.E.


I watched the repeat programme with Dr Christian Jessen last night.

He underwent what he felt was a legit. Test in New york first of all to see if he was gay. He was 100% gay.

Then he proceeded to look into these bogus cures.

First up was the NHS. Aversion Therapy I was the most horrified by. Really shocked. And yes this was still being given on the NHS in the 80s.

A Doctor who used to do this was questioned and I didnt much like his excuses. He said he was a young nieve Doctor in a 'team' which he stressed and just following orders from consultants. He thought he was helping patients. He didnt appear apologetic but did say he never saw any gay man 'cured'.

The treatment consisted of inducing vomiting whilst looking at photos and listening to vile words.

(this bit is particularly disgusting so dont read it

Warning - description of NHS aversion therapy coming here... Patients were told not to spit out their vomit or go to the basin but to be sick where they were and sit in their own vomit, faeces and urine. Vomiting would be induced every two hours for days i think it said)


Dr. CJ did one round of vomiting and was considerably upset and felt humiliated - not suprisingly. Totally shocked i was.

Other 'treatments' on offer was exorcism, religion, a weird colour your own MRI brain scan...

This consisted of an outline of a brain and head. The patient would be told to use crayons to colour it in. I think this was psychotherapy.

Based on the colours used, the practitioner would diagnose the problem. Black for example was trauma.

Heavy in all themes was childhood trauma - overidentifying with a mother if a boy and a distant father for example.

Patient was told the black in the brain was the bad bit and given homework to ask the brown colour to talk to the black colour and more nonsense.



Dr.CJ said he was only for evidence based medicine and of course there is nothing to 'cure'.

These 'cures' are only causing pain, suffering and psychological damage as the very word 'therapy' is being abused as its supposed to feel empowering and give you self esteem , confodence etc.

Good overall documentary - not the best write up - apologies.

I look forward to watching such a documentary on M.E. And C.F.S. Abuse.


P.s. The 15 (ish) men who were preaching religion and that they were x-gay - ended up refusing the objective gay test Dr.CJ recommended.




A smiley face to Dr.Christian