Supplement interaction chart?

[Ocean]

I've been slowly trying to add some vitamins/supplements and I seem to react to everything and I think part of the reason is that most vitamins/supplements seem to affect the level of some other vitamin and then cause some sort of symptom due to that deficiency. It's exhausting researching it all.

I take D, so I apparently need to also take zinc, which then may affect copper, and with D I also need to vitamin a, which may then affect vitamin e, etc. etc.It's seems like a never-ending loop. And of course, there's also the issus of what to take with food, what to take with fat, what supplements to not take at the same time, etc.

Is there any sort of chart somewhere that shows if you take such and such supplement you should also take these other supplements and how to take them (with food/without food, with other supplements, etc.)? If not, someone should make one and give or sell it to us sickies. I think it would be extremely useful. Any tips?

 

[Patrick*]

I've been wondering the same things, Ocean. It gets so complicated with all these supplements. You'd think that a chart like this must already exist somewhere, so hopefully someone can link one.

But, if no one comes up with anything, I'd be willing to make one. It'd take a lot of research, so maybe it could be done as a collaborative project on Google Documents if anyone would be interested in joining forces...

 

[Ocean]

But, if no one comes up with anything, I'd be willing to make one. It'd take a lot of research, so maybe it could be done as a collaborative project on Google Documents if anyone would be interested in joining forces...

I think that would be awesome. I know very little but would be willing to contribute any info I've managed to find out. We could maybe start a thread where we all just post the info. we know about this stuff then make a document using that info. I don't know if that would be helpful though or just make it harder.

 

[SaraM]

Ocean, you might find this helpful:

http://www.acu-cell.com/acn2.html#adk

 

[August59]

I'm going to "Ditto" this. I'm not sure how to best organize something like this because I can see something like this "snowballing", but it could be a great tool for us since we take numerous supplements and "not so common" supplements. I would think starting with just vitamins would be the best, but following up by adding minerals and possibly amino acids as some of them are very critical on timing of ingestion. A list like this could eventually include herbs and/or adaptogens.
I imagine that some of this is already done and could be possibly just cut and pasted into whatever format that would work best. An Excel spreadsheet would be easily revised, but don't know if everyone can view.
This is a very good idea Ocean. Thanks

 

[Jenny]

Ocean - some useful sites are on this thread:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ents-interactions-uses-etc.15165/#post-246725

Jenny

 

[xchocoholic]

Imho, some, all ?, of the data on how nutrients interact is flawed. Each of us have different aminos,
peptides and enzymes needed to break these down. These aminos, peptides and enzymes
are based on diet, bacteria, genes, heavy metal load, virses, etc.

For ex. Just because you take x amount of magnesium doesn't mean you need x amount of calcium. It depends on
how your body processes magnesium and calcium individually.

This is why many of us can't handle the methylation protocal supplements too.

My body is hosed, meaning my aminos, peptides and enzymes are off, so I try to get my nutrients from my diet. Tc .. X

 

[taniaaust1]

I take D, so I apparently need to also take zinc, which then may affect copper, and with D I also need to vitamin a, which may then affect vitamin e, etc. etc.It's seems like a never-ending loop.

I personally dont think one could just follow a chart for such things as everyone is so individual and much of this is also dependant on a persons diet and how much of things they are getting in it. Just cause someone needs to supplement with one thing, doesnt necessarily mean they will need to supplement with something else too just cause two things go together (it depends on diet etc). What drugs a person is on too can really affect the balance of what is being used more and what one could need.

If you are just correcting for deficiencies.. there really shouldnt be an issue in the others as long as diet etc is good.

 

[xchocoholic]

Hi again,

I have another example ... I was taking 250 mg b6 for my oxalate problem and it never gave me any energy.
But when I started juicing in march, it boost my energy level through the roof. I was able to go on long hikes several
days in a row.

After experimenting a bit, I figured out that I only get the boost from b6 if I juice as well.

So I'm "assuming" since I don't have a way to test this in a lab, that juicing is providing nutrients I need to
break b6 down into p5p for me. P5p was rocket fuel for me but I can't sleep if I take it.

Fwiw, taking b6 and magnesium is recommended for those with oxalate problems. Um, no supplement
manufacturer tells us this but it's in the low ox and vulvodynia info. It's helped me along with the low / med
ox diet.

Tc .. X

Ps. B6 plus juicing still gives me some extra energy. Just not if I'm in pem mode.

 

[Ocean]

I personally dont think one could just follow a chart for such things as everyone is so individual and much of this is also dependant on a persons diet and how much of things they are getting in it. Just cause someone needs to supplement with one thing, doesnt necessarily mean they will need to supplement with something else too just cause two things go together (it depends on diet etc). What drugs a person is on too can really affect the balance of what is being used more and what one could need.

If you are just correcting for deficiencies.. there really shouldnt be an issue in the others as long as diet etc is good.

I think it's still possible. Everything is individual including meds, etc. but that doesn't mean general guidelines, like take this med with food or take this one at night etc. can't be given. I think people will know to take their individual situation into account and to experiment. Still there are general guidelines and for me at least they seem to apply. For example I've had lots of trouble with vitamin D but as I'm adding in the cofactors, I'm tolerating it better and better so I think the general guidelines of taking vit. D with cofactors is useful but maybe for someone else it's not. Still the guidelines already exist out there in the literature and I think having them in one place would be useful, at least for me.

 

[Ocean]

Thanks for the links Jenny and Sara, I'm going to take a look at those.

 

[GracieJ]

I think it would be cool to put something like this together. I have used alternative medicine for years, and right now use only herbs, vitamins, and minerals for cfs with fantastic results after years and years of working at it. Other people ask me what I use; I am cautious to say, because what has worked I truly believe worked because a strong foundation was built over time with many nutrients and elimination of some issues. (Candidiasis is almost completely history -- HUGE interaction factors gone -- blood alcohol level has to be way down.) But there are still basic things to know, like which herbs REALLY need a break of several weeks while using, which ones are extremely potent and should be used with care as if a controlled prescription, and which vitamins, as noted, work in synergy with other vitamins or minerals. For example, I have used kava kava for years and years when anxiety and stress really go through the roof, then put it away for a while. I recently learned that prolonged use of kava kava causes liver damage. It has actually been banned in most of Europe now. How grateful I am that I was smart enough to use it only occasionally, because it is a wonderful active herb.
The reverse is true also; I was using many herbs that contribute to major body steroids in the body, and after many years, finally learned that I needed to double, triple, or sometimes quadruple the dose before I had results. I think this is why some cfs people do not see results; the suggestions on the bottle or from caregivers are for normal body systems or are cautious dose levels in the first place. Our systems seem to use and need supersizing on nutrients and it should be done with utmost care and wisdom. Maybe this chart could be a general description chart of recommended usage and dosage, and cross-referenced with synergistic partners. It would give a quick red flag, say, for a heart patient with cfs who wants to try alternatives, but needs to know which herbs and vitamins would cause their medication dosage to need modification.
I like muscle-testing the best to determine dosages. It gets it right every time, lets you know when to slow down and taper back, and when you need to ramp it up again.

 

[xchocoholic]

Um, I'd like to re-phrase what I said earlier. We're seeing some new info on how nutrients interact
coming from some excellent researchers in these fields. It's that new info I'd like to see
charted.

While, keeping in mind that even some of this is speculation and without identifying
what each individual has or needs, no one can say any of this for certain. That kind of testing is a long
way off for most people tho. And, fwiw, I imagine that those being tested at this point are ill.

Kudos to the researchers
who keep learning ... Tc .. X