Sulfite/sulfate and ammonia questions

[Vegas]

Bill Lagakos talks about GOS increasing bifidobacteria here...

"Gut microbiome & short-chain fatty acids: resistant starch vs. prebiotics"
http://caloriesproper.com/?p=4153

...also, cocoa flavanols! Hehe. Chocolate anyone?

I don't know who Bill Lagakos is, but this is very much on point. Thanks for linking. It looks like he has looked at quite a few studies comparing efficacy of PS to GOS. If his conclusions are accurate, both seem to be pretty effective at raising Bifidus counts. Of course this does not resolve the question about substrate specificity and the possibility that one is less likely to encourage the growth of more pathogenic organisms than the other, something that may only be relevant to a subset. (I really hate being in that subset)

I had heard about the effect of cocoa flavanols, and have raw cocoa beans here at my desk. They have other compounds, though, that make this somewhat tricky. Their bitter taste is a clue that they are rich in alkaloids. There are lots of pairing in nature of plant compounds to protect us. You need Bifidobacteria to assist with the metabolism of alkaloids, so the cocoa bean is rich in antioxidants and stimulates Bifidobacterial growth. Brilliant engineering. Strangely enough, the friend who brought the cocoa beans to me has gotten a number of people "hooked" on these raw beans; too bitter for me, but they chew them throughout the day. Perhaps those who perceive less bitterness have an inherently superior or acquired ability to metabolize alkaolids.

One of the ways in which I was able to conclude that the Bifidobacteria were likely critical to my recovery (aside from the studies demonstrating that the Genus were significantly under-represented in ME/CFS, my own personal history of c-section/bottle fed/milk allergy/b12 deficient mother and knowledge of how this impacts the microbiome, and understanding the ramifications depleted Bifidobacterial organisms would would have) was that nearly every nutrient/supplement that conclusively benefited me was either bifidogenic or biosynthesized by Bifidobacteria: Pantethine, B2, Magnesium, MTHF, B12. Of course the handful of other things that helped were closely tied to problems that would be created by a deficiency of these nutrients or secondary consequences of intestinal permeability.

 

[Christopher]

I don't know who Bill Lagakos is, but this is very much on point. Thanks for linking. It looks like he has looked at quite a few studies comparing efficacy of PS to GOS. If his conclusions are accurate, both seem to be pretty effective at raising Bifidus counts. Of course this does not resolve the question about substrate specificity and the possibility that one is less likely to encourage the growth of more pathogenic organisms than the other, something that may only be relevant to a subset. (I really hate being in that subset)

I had heard about the effect of cocoa flavanols, and have raw cocoa beans here at my desk. They have other compounds, though, that make this somewhat tricky. Their bitter taste is a clue that they are rich in alkaloids. There are lots of pairing in nature of plant compounds to protect us. You need Bifidobacteria to assist with the metabolism of alkaloids, so the cocoa bean is rich in antioxidants and stimulates Bifidobacterial growth. Brilliant engineering. Strangely enough, the friend who brought the cocoa beans to me has gotten a number of people "hooked" on these raw beans; too bitter for me, but they chew them throughout the day. Perhaps those who perceive less bitterness have an inherently superior or acquired ability to metabolize alkaolids.

One of the ways in which I was able to conclude that the Bifidobacteria were likely critical to my recovery (aside from the studies demonstrating that the Genus were significantly under-represented in ME/CFS, my own personal history of c-section/bottle fed/milk allergy/b12 deficient mother and knowledge of how this impacts the microbiome, and understanding the ramifications depleted Bifidobacterial organisms would would have) was that nearly every nutrient/supplement that conclusively benefited me was either bifidogenic or biosynthesized by Bifidobacteria: Pantethine, B2, Magnesium, MTHF, B12. Of course the handful of other things that helped were closely tied to problems that would be created by a deficiency of these nutrients or secondary consequences of intestinal permeability.

You think we can get any effect from the probiotic alone, or only once it's cultured to increase the # of bacteria.

 

[Christopher]

B. Longum would not be my first choice, but again, there are way too many variables to know what will be most effective, with respect to individual organims. Ideally you would culture multiple strains individually and trial them separately. I think B. Longum is better than nothing, although I have not singularly cultured B. Longum, only in combination with other strains. I do not know how well it will replicate and what texture you will get. Also, there are significant variance in subspecies/strain, as is there with the process used to store and preserve the probiotic.

Heat your milk to 75 C, stirring regularly once it goes above 50C. (use candy thermometer). Put pot of milk in sink with cold water to bring temp down to 40 or so. pour a small amount of milk into a bowl, mix probiotic into the bowl, I use about a 5-10 grams of powder, it's not real scientific. Mix in a couple of grams of vitamin c. Do your best to dissolve this, then pour it back into the pot with the rest of the milk in it, stir it up real well, then pour it into your yogurt maker, I use glass jars, let "cook" for 24 hours, refrigerate.

Whole milk is preferable. I mix the yogurt in with some frozen blueberries, strawberries, and some juice and blend it. It doesn't taste bad, but it makes it easier to get the kids to take it.

What yogurt maker do you use? I read that for some the temperature isn't reliable past 8 hours.

 

[Violeta]

Bill Lagakos talks about GOS increasing bifidobacteria here...

"Gut microbiome & short-chain fatty acids: resistant starch vs. prebiotics"
http://caloriesproper.com/?p=4153

...also, cocoa flavanols! Hehe. Chocolate anyone?

Thank for linking that article, Anne.

Do you think that mixing cacao powder in the fermenting yogurt would be beneficial?

I made some yogurt today and mixed in about 3 grams of ascorbic acid. The probiotic (Natren bifido factor) and the vitamin c clumped together and wouldn't dissolve. (I use raw milk, so that may complicate things.) It was either throw it away or blend it in my nutribullet. So I blended it and we'll see what happens.

 

[Violeta]

@Vegas,
"and understanding the ramifications depleted Bifidobacterial organisms would would have) was that nearly every nutrient/supplement that conclusively benefited me was either bifidogenic or biosynthesized by Bifidobacteria: Pantethine, B2, Magnesium, MTHF, B12. Of course the handful of other things that helped were closely tied to problems that would be created by a deficiency of these nutrients or secondary consequences of intestinal permeability"

That's deep! How on earth did you figure out about the pantethine, Magnesium, MTFR, and B12 were bifidogenic?

Also, with respect to the threonine, lentils and sesame seeds have bothered me greatly for a long time. I could never figure out why. Both of them are supposed to be so good for you. I have thrown out large amounts of both just trying to make them work for me. Threonine seems to be a valuable amino acid. Methionine being in the pathway might explain why whey bothers me.

The yogurt does look like it's setting. I put a dish towel over the yogurt maker to keep it warmer, plus last time I didn't let it go the whole 24 hours.

Thanks

 

[Christopher]

What yogurt makers are y'all using? I think that I'm going to try the Yogourmet with the light dimmer.

It seems that the main reason for allowing 24 hours to ferment is to get rid of most of the lactose. If we just do an 8 hour ferment, that should work too, no? Is the 24 hour ferment that important @Vegas ?

 

[Violeta]

I have the Euro Cuisine yogurt maker YM80. I bought it because I wanted glass jars.

 

[anne_likes_red]

I had an insulated box built around an exposed part of the hot water pipe leading to our hot water tank. It's in a cupboard just off the kitchen. Temp stays around the 95 F mark. When needed overnight I just pop in a hot water bottle to boost the temperature. The downside is In Winter I do have to get up (aaarrrggghhh) to re-fill the hot water bottle. I make bigger batches less often in Winter!
I used hot water bottles to keep the temp a bit over 100 F for my bifido culture. (Thanks Vegas, it's looking good!)
I make ferments in 500 ml or 1 liter glass preserving jars.

@Violeta I would probably add raw cacao to the culture after it's finished growing and before you refrigerate it rather than during the fermentation unless you can be sure it's sterile. (But I am extra cautious like that!)

@Vegas I like how you worked out increasing Bifidobacteria could be a worthwhile therapeutic approach.
Do you know...is the Bimuno GOS Bifido derived or something else? I understand how the closer the prebiotic is to the 'right shape' the better it's going to preferentially boost health promoting bacteria vs ones we have but definitely don't want more of. ....That's a reservation I have too, as a PWME/member of that subset, with using a more general plant derived resistant starch. (Though it's a great tool for many I'm sure!)

PS Before I forget...I read somewhere that adding L cysteine will help bifidobacteria grow extra well in milk.

 

[Violeta]

Anne, the box around the hot water pipe is such a good idea! I've made yogurt by putting it in glass quart jars and placing them in a cooler with warm water. It works better in the summer when I don't have to change the water so often. I've made it inside the oven, too, but our new stove does not have a pilot light, so I have to place the jars next to the oven light, cover them with a towel, and keep trays of hot water under the jars. I might try that next time again, though, as my yogurt in the yogurt maker didn't turn out very good. Some of it separated and the fat that rose to the top looks and smells cooked.

As far as the cacao goes, since it doesn't really help in the culturing process, chocolate flavor doesn't go well with sour yogurt, so if I want the special forces of chocolate along with the probiotic, I'll just eat some chocolate beforehand. Twist my arm.

 

[Violeta]

I just realized why there was clumping when I added the vitamin c (ascorbic acid). That's the process that they use to separate the curds and whey, but they usually use lemon juice. No wonder my yogurt separated as it cultured.

 

[Gestalt]

Resistant starch is a very good idea. I have incorporated this for some time through various foods, but not in the same quantities as you report. I've also never taken unmodified potato starch, but I am intrigued by the idea of using this method to introduce large quantities of RS. Actually, I think galactooligosaccharide (GOS) may be the ideal substrate for Bifidobacterial growth. Have you considered this. A while back I tried to get some bifido-sourced GOS, but it was only available in the UK. There are other non-bifido-derived sources of GOS, though.

I think RS could be very effective, but I believe most here would benefit from the introduction of species that they are lacking. The ongoing supplementation of these organisms will need to continue until the conditions in the bowel are such that these organisms can predominate. Unfortunately, one of the limiting factors in repopulating the intestinal microbiome is going to be one's tolerance to the fatigue and inflammatory response created by the displacement of these organisms. Everyone I know that has pursued my suggestions have eventually experienced this. If you throw down the ideal substrate and start putting in huge numbers of these organisms, as is the case when you culture your own bacteria without competing organisms, there will be some negative consequences.

I had never heard of GOS until you mentioned it. I am very interested in comparing its efficacy to RS. Both substances appear to be front runners in terms of dramatically increasing bifido populations.

The fatigue response you speak of is exactly what I experienced starting the RS. I improved in many other metrics however. I occasionally have days now where my body feels amazing but on the whole I am more fatigued than before. For a full report on my experience thus far with RS please read my post on my other thread here: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/candida-biofilms-theory-protocol.25472/page-4#post-426080

I do think the nitrogen problem may be a core issue in ME/CFS and it is reflective of dysbiosis. For many this does not become apparent until cysteine levels rise or pathogenic organisms involved in the nitrogen cycle are displaced. Cysteine metabolism is closely paired to nitrogen metabolism in humans and with apologies to Ms. Yasko, I think the influence of cysteine is not what she has hypothesized. Bifidobacteria positively contribute to denitrification, and their collective impact in humans is unlike any other organism. (SBO's are generally pretty efficient at this as well but they will not predominate).

I was wondering if you could expand on this subject of dentrification. What is it you exactly mean by that? The reason I'm curious is that a while ago I started taking a new NOx supplement from AOR that is loaded with nitrates and nitrites. If you look through AOR's site, they drop obscure clues as to their "secret" formula and it appears to be a bacteria of some kind that interacts with these compounds which promotes health by producing NO. I seemed to feel better taking the supplement but can't tell if its placebo or not.

Let me know if you have tried GOS and how your experiment is going. Also, what sort of ammonia symptoms have you experienced.

The ammonia symptoms were quite sever considering how drastic the relief was when I initially began taking yucca. It's hard to describe, but there was this nervous system and muscular tension along my entire spine. It felt inflamed and like it was seizing up. There was also a subtle background pain I had largely learned to repress. I would wake up in the morning feeling like I had been hit by a semi-truck, and my entire body was stiff. Sleeping was more exhausting than rejuvenating and my dreams were filled with anxiety. I couldn't eat within 3 hours of waking as it felt my digestive system had no energy to move anything at all, least of all absorb nutrients from food. I felt like a zombie for the first half of the day and was obviously fatigued and had severe brain fog.

The yucca gave me about a 70% improvement in symptoms. I still have most of them now, but the severity is drastically less. With the RS now I occasionally have a day where they seem completely gone (so 100% improvement), so I am very hopeful at this point. Overall I feel like I'm at the 80% mark but frustratingly it fluctuates quite a bit. Also I have lived with this type of symptoms for most of my life, so I'm not even sure what "normal" feels like.

I am in the process of hopefully getting some GOS sourced from Bifidus, so I will test this hypothesis against PS.

I am confused by your statement. Do the bifido make GOS?? I tried looking for GOS and it's really hard to find. What are your thoughts on : http://www.bimuno.com/ ? I would really like to try GOS but want to make sure I am getting one from the correct source. Do you have any references? And where are you hopefully getting yours?

I don't know who Bill Lagakos is, but this is very much on point. Thanks for linking. It looks like he has looked at quite a few studies comparing efficacy of PS to GOS. If his conclusions are accurate, both seem to be pretty effective at raising Bifidus counts. Of course this does not resolve the question about substrate specificity and the possibility that one is less likely to encourage the growth of more pathogenic organisms than the other, something that may only be relevant to a subset. (I really hate being in that subset)

In terms of specificity it seems that RS does quite well. If you look at Tim's n=1 experiment he has less of the pathogenic proteobacteria than anyone else in the comparison table! http://freetheanimal.com/2013/11/resistant-american-comparison.html

In those terms I feel safer taking RS than GOS because at least with the RS there is some evidence indicating it's specificity. I agree in=1 is not exactly great but its better than nothing. Anecdotally also the vast majority of people taking RS (in the thousands) are reporting major improvements. If someone were to break out with E.Coli or something nasty I think we would have heard by now. In fact resistant starch has been used as an effective treatment to treat cholera. It has been shown in a lab that 98% of cholera bacteria will detach from an agar substrate and bind to the resistant starch for elimination. (refrence) I also read somewhere that cold potatoes were prescribed in the 1800's for digestive ailments along with treating Dysentery. So RS has a record of being useful to treat some pretty nasty conditions going back quite a ways.

I had heard about the effect of cocoa flavanols, and have raw cocoa beans here at my desk. They have other compounds, though, that make this somewhat tricky. Their bitter taste is a clue that they are rich in alkaloids. There are lots of pairing in nature of plant compounds to protect us. You need Bifidobacteria to assist with the metabolism of alkaloids, so the cocoa bean is rich in antioxidants and stimulates Bifidobacterial growth. Brilliant engineering. Strangely enough, the friend who brought the cocoa beans to me has gotten a number of people "hooked" on these raw beans; too bitter for me, but they chew them throughout the day. Perhaps those who perceive less bitterness have an inherently superior or acquired ability to metabolize alkaolids

I am very interested in also trying these cocoa flavanols after reading this blog post: http://caloriesproper.com/?p=1583

I found one company that claims to have a superior supplement that preserves all the flavanols in cocoa that I am interested in trying for its bifidogenic properties. https://www.cocoavia.com/ The parent company Mars Inc sued Life Extension Foundation and Naturex for 9 patents infringements in its cocoa flavnaol production. If people are trying to steal the formula it makes me think there is something to it and I now want to try it.

The research they tout is kinda funny to me in that they are promoting it for it's cardiovascular benefits with no mention of it's supposed bifidogenic properties. Makes me think they don't even know how or why it has those beneficial effects. LOL. If only the company read these forums.

I had some organic cocoa at home but it is "dutch-processed" which apparently destroys 90%+ of the flavanols...too bad.

Also wondering about Pectin. According to this one study it reigned supreme in terms of its bifidogenic effects. Could it be better than RS and GOS? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23831725

The full paper can be found here: http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1024&context=foodscidiss
I didn't read through the whole thing, so I didn't examine their methodology or quantities used, duration,etc. they were trying to study obesity...but the results table appears to be on pg.76. Also they didn't test GOS but Pectin appears to be about 3x better than RS-2 in terms of affecting bifido populations.

Also while not a comparitive study this one also touts apple.
Effect of apple intake on fecal microbiota and metabolites in humans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20304079

 

[Violeta]

Like you, Gestalt, it hit me that bifidobacteria makes GOS, and we are trying to obtain it to "make" bifidobacteria.

That's what made me realize the other day that galactooligosaccharides are probably made from galactose. Galactose is, of course, along with glucose, what lactose is digested into. So I am wondering if culturing bifidobacteria in milk actually produces GOS.

Does this mean that milk is the best substrate?

I don't know if bifidobacteria is as good at digesting lactose as l. acidophilus, though, and I think that may be why I'm having a problem creating yogurt with it, and why Anne had success making yogurt with it by first using some form of acidophilus.

Anne, how did your yogurt get using just bifidobacteria?

And PS: you can buy galactose

 

[Vegas]

I just realized why there was clumping when I added the vitamin c (ascorbic acid). That's the process that they use to separate the curds and whey, but they usually use lemon juice. No wonder my yogurt separated as it cultured.

Ascorbic acid is used in most commercial yogurt starters. Should be fine to use, but you do not have to use with the Natren product. The addition of ascorbic acid is a "hold over" from when I used to use capsules from other suppliers to culture yogurt.

You think we can get any effect from the probiotic alone, or only once it's cultured to increase the # of bacteria.

Yes, I could feel the effects with an uncultured dose, provided it was large enough, but I don't think this alone will be enough to "turn the tide," although a combination with prebiotics will definitely help.

 

[Vegas]

I have the Euro Cuisine yogurt maker YM80. I bought it because I wanted glass jars.

Christopher--I have a similar yogurt maker with glass jars, not sure about model. Something cheap from Target. I found that the yogurt I was making was too potent to make in large batches, so the small glass jars were ideal. No problems with excessive temperature.

FYI, I have not found it to develop any appreciable change in taste in three weeks, actually maybe four weeks. This yogurt is simply more resistant to spoilage because of the superiority of the organism, I think. It also maintains its potency, at least it does to a large extent, for this entire period. This seems to contravene science pertaining to yogurt technology, but this may related to the fact that no one is culturing milk with a singular Bifidus bifidum strain, so it may be species & strain specific.

 

[Vegas]

I just realized why there was clumping when I added the vitamin c (ascorbic acid). That's the process that they use to separate the curds and whey, but they usually use lemon juice. No wonder my yogurt separated as it cultured.

I don't recall seeing any commercial yogurt starters that did not contain ascorbic acid.

 

[Vegas]

@Vegas,
"and understanding the ramifications depleted Bifidobacterial organisms would would have) was that nearly every nutrient/supplement that conclusively benefited me was either bifidogenic or biosynthesized by Bifidobacteria: Pantethine, B2, Magnesium, MTHF, B12. Of course the handful of other things that helped were closely tied to problems that would be created by a deficiency of these nutrients or secondary consequences of intestinal permeability"

That's deep! How on earth did you figure out about the pantethine, Magnesium, MTFR, and B12 were bifidogenic?

Also, with respect to the threonine, lentils and sesame seeds have bothered me greatly for a long time. I could never figure out why. Both of them are supposed to be so good for you. I have thrown out large amounts of both just trying to make them work for me. Threonine seems to be a valuable amino acid. Methionine being in the pathway might explain why whey bothers me.

The yogurt does look like it's setting. I put a dish towel over the yogurt maker to keep it warmer, plus last time I didn't let it go the whole 24 hours.

Thanks

In many ways I am fortunate to have become so ill that I was able to "react" to countless foods and supplements because this enabled me to group the similar compounds and establish patterns. I think I became somewhat inured to the pain over time and simply never stopped experimenting. I conclusively proved to myself the whole ammonia/nitrogen problem when I conducted some brutal experiments on myself that involved consuming lots of high-nitrogen foods, acidifying and neutralizing the gut, and manipulating the cysteine and nitrogen metabolism.

 

[Vegas]

I had an insulated box built around an exposed part of the hot water pipe leading to our hot water tank. It's in a cupboard just off the kitchen. Temp stays around the 95 F mark. When needed overnight I just pop in a hot water bottle to boost the temperature. The downside is In Winter I do have to get up (aaarrrggghhh) to re-fill the hot water bottle. I make bigger batches less often in Winter!
I used hot water bottles to keep the temp a bit over 100 F for my bifido culture. (Thanks Vegas, it's looking good!)
I make ferments in 500 ml or 1 liter glass preserving jars.

@Violeta I would probably add raw cacao to the culture after it's finished growing and before you refrigerate it rather than during the fermentation unless you can be sure it's sterile. (But I am extra cautious like that!)

@Vegas I like how you worked out increasing Bifidobacteria could be a worthwhile therapeutic approach.
Do you know...is the Bimuno GOS Bifido derived or something else? I understand how the closer the prebiotic is to the 'right shape' the better it's going to preferentially boost health promoting bacteria vs ones we have but definitely don't want more of. ....That's a reservation I have too, as a PWME/member of that subset, with using a more general plant derived resistant starch. (Though it's a great tool for many I'm sure!)

PS Before I forget...I read somewhere that adding L cysteine will help bifidobacteria grow extra well in milk.

Yes, Bimuno is B. Bifidum derived. The idea of matching the substrate or prebiotic to the commensal organism you want to replicate is valid; this is perhaps the ideal solution. I am, however, getting interesting and encouraging results from PS.

B. Bifidum derived GOS, I believ,has the most specificity for nurturing gut organisms because it will only feed Bifidobacteria and some strains of Clostridia. Before someone panics about the Clostrida connection, they need to understand three things. 1. Not all species of Clostridia are pathogenic. 2. All Bifidobacteria can outcompete Clostrida for the substrate. 3. Other carbohydrates and proteins, to a lesser degree, are "feeding" these same bacteria, so it is not a case of nurturing Clostridia.

Yes cysteine is apparently good for growth, I haven't tried it though. The benefits are derived from lowering oxidative stress, which is obviously critical for maintaining the viability of the organism; however, too much "intervention" can result in some adverse qualities. In other words, varying degrees of oxidative stress will alter gene expression and bring out favorable qualities. The addition of other nutrients,like folate, riboflavin, and biotin can stimulate growth as well, but I was concerned that I might be changing something for the worse.

 

[Vegas]

I just realized why there was clumping when I added the vitamin c (ascorbic acid). That's the process that they use to separate the curds and whey, but they usually use lemon juice. No wonder my yogurt separated as it cultured.

Ascorbic acid is used in most commercial yogurt starters. Leave it out if you want though.

What yogurt makers are y'all using? I think that I'm going to try the Yogourmet with the light dimmer.

It seems that the main reason for allowing 24 hours to ferment is to get rid of most of the lactose. If we just do an 8 hour ferment, that should work too, no? Is the 24 hour ferment that important @Vegas ?

I think the longer ferment is almost always important for multiplying bacteria and it is also required when you are using a strains from the Bifidobacterium genus vs. LAB.

 

[Violeta]

With respect to the ascorbic acid, maybe I used too much. If most yogurt starters contain ascorbic acid, then I have probably used it when making yogurt with raw milk, so it can't be that it has a separate effect on raw milk.

With respect to the yogurt lasting 3 to 4 weeks, thanks for bringing that up. I was a little concerned about that because I read that bifidobacteria doesn't lower the pH quite as much as LAB, and they say the lowered pH acts as the preservative.

 

[Vegas]

Your symptoms are very familiar to me. I think most stem from pro-inflammatory cytokine activation. There are two fundamental problems, there is the accumulation of nitrogen metabolites, which puts a great burden on your liver, your ATP, and your glutathione, but "underneath" this you still have to displace the organisms that were contributing to the problem. This is what causes the fatigue; the neutralization of these toxins is energetically costly, taxes the antioxidant network, and is finally felt as fatigue when these reserves cannot sufficiently protect the mitochondria. When the gram-negative cell walls are destroyed release endotoxins that are so virulent, exponentially more toxic than yeasts. Massive oversimplification here, but as you become more immunocompetent, your ratio of glutathione to oxidized glutathione improves, free cysteine rises, your T-cell's shift, you become a bacterial killing machine. The problem is, LPS is just so incredibly toxic, especially if you have intestinal permeability. This is why I think the RS may be very valuable.

We do know exactly which organisms can utilize GOS as a substrate and which cannot. It is only going to be used, to any real extent, in the large bowel and by Bifidobacteria. If you don't have any Bifidobacteria, some species can marginally utilize this. Herein lies the reason why we must repopulate. I continue to think that diversity of Bifidobacteria is essential, but if one were to start the process, B. Bifidum still seems like an ideal species.

Thank you for making me aware of this idea of not only using PS, but using it in large quantities. My inconsistent use of RS never amounted to any strong shift in symptoms, and of course I was taking huge quantities. I have already received some very favorable early indications. It is very remeniscent of when I started culturing B. Bifidum singularly, except, I think with a clearly diminished inflammatory response. The benefits of the prebiotic extend beyond those of acting as a substrate for bifidobacteria. I know the RS also hinders the adhesion of pathogenic organisms, but there is more going on. There is another apparent anti-inflammatory mechanism of action, based upon my response. I would venture a guess that the PS is neutralizing LPS in the bowel. If this is true, I think this would represent an unbelievably valuable property.

Edit: Perhaps the effect is completely mediated by the SCFA. I recall back to when I was trying to find a way to better neutralize LPS that fatty acids were some of the more effective substances, at least in vitro. Interestingly, now that I think about it, so is taurine and some other substances that would start to come up once the bifidobacteria take hold. I digress.

I will have to write back when I have more time. I will check out the link you posted as I now see there is much more discussion about this. Thanks