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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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Substantial relief from alcohol

Seanko

Seanko

Senior Member
Messages
119
Location
Swindon, UK
ukxmrv said:
I feel much worse after alcohol regardless of the type and no benefits the next day

Is it a boy/girl thing or maybe a POTs difference?
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Yes, pretty much like you say @ukxmrv . As you say,with people like ourselves it is probably due to the alcohol lowering blood pressure causing dizzyness, lightheadedness ie "orthostatic intolerance" in the jargon, which is where a ME/CFS sub-group appears to overlap with POTS

Like many things, Prof Julia Newton is looking into this...(the blood pressure thing not the alcohol)
 
Seanko

Seanko

Senior Member
Messages
119
Location
Swindon, UK
Marco said:
. Jarred Younger suggests (and I agree) that a key problem in ME/CFS is that activated microglia interpret normal physiological signals as danger signals and it's plausible that alcohol may dampen this effect temporarily.
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@Marco you probably saw the Pandora video earlier in the year with Jarred Younger. He mentioned that a study with alcohol & ME/CFS was one of the experiments he was planning.
 
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geraldt52

Senior Member
Messages
602
I have suffered for 15 years from extreme insomnia, brought on by Klonopin habituation/dependence/withdrawal. I have tried every drug, every supplement, every urban legend, and absolutely nothing works as good as a 1-1/2 oz shot of vodka in the middle of the night when I can't sleep. It's contrary to everything that is "common knowledge" about alcohol, no doctor would endorse it, but it is the only thing that works for me...and has for several years now with no habituation/dependence/withdrawal. I don't mean to pretend that it is a magic elixir, but it is the difference between a few hours of sleep and zero sleep...which those who suffer know is a very big difference.
 
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redaxe

Senior Member
Messages
230
Interesting observation. I always find I don't react well to too much alcohol. I get a strong diuretic affect from it and dry mouth and dry eyes.
Earlier on I had a lot of sensitivities to chemicals and possibly mold so I was completely intolerant to alcohol. Although I don't have those symptoms now or at least not noticeably.

I'm surprised that so many people find benefit from it. I though alcohol would dehydate us and make orthostatic intolerance worse.
 
MikeV

MikeV

Messages
18
Location
Napa, California
geraldt52 said:
and absolutely nothing works as good as a 1-1/2 oz shot of vodka in the middle of the night when I can't sleep. It's contrary to everything that is "common knowledge" about alcohol, no doctor would endorse it, but it is the only thing that works for me...and has for several years now with no habituation/dependence/withdrawal.
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Gerald, how frequently do you do this? Do you tend to wake up every night hungry for it? I am asking because I recently allow myself about 1 oz. of cognac in the evenings; because my brain is in mile-a-minute overdrive (frequently happens at NIGHT). This small amount of alcohol, sipped very slowly throughout the evening, switches off the "wildfire thoughts" and lightens the malaise (my main CFS complaint) so I can relax and be asleep before midnight. I don't come anywhere near drunkenness, but it really changes the whole pattern of my evening. I have recently been experimenting with my own version of Lightning Process-type mental disciplines. I know this is frowned on at PR, but because (since early adulthood) I definitely DO have a problem with overthinking everything, almost like "thinking in a fever", I cannot help but wonder if this contributed to my getting sick originally, and if finding a way to "turn it off" might help me.

Since the cognac is becoming an every night thing, I worry a little about becoming dependent on alcohol. I am in the midst of a deep crash right now, since May, and I still must work; my part time job involves outdoor physical labor... I can hardly move some days and my head feels so sick and heavy that I wish I was home with my Maker... but recently it seems like the small amount of alcohol at night helps me to function better the next day. It seems to moderate the extreme crash-y sick-as-a-dog feeling. So reading this thread is REAL interesting to me. I have been desperate this summer to feel better. I am always just a few steps away from the homeless shelter.

A curious thing is when I had my sudden onset of CFS in 1993, I OVERNIGHT became alcohol intolerant. Alcohol went down like liquid fire, seemed to burn and boil in my stomach, and caused immediate extreme headache malaise. No more. Makes me ponder the other things that have shifted in 22 years. I am sicker than I have been in many years this summer, but the symptoms have shifted themselves around.

Though I do not post often, I continue to value the information and flow of ideas on this forum.
 
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geraldt52

Senior Member
Messages
602
MikeV said:
Gerald, how frequently do you do this?... This small amount of alcohol, sipped very slowly throughout the evening, switches off the "wildfire thoughts" and lightens the malaise (my main CFS complaint) so I can relax and be asleep before midnight. I don't come anywhere near drunkenness, but it really changes the whole pattern of my evening...
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The frequency has varied over the approximately 5 years that I've been doing it, MikeV. Sometimes I'm able to go a week without it, then need it every day for a month. I'm in a bad spell right now, and I've been doing it every night for a couple of months.

I have never had to increase the "dose", and the only "need" I feel is just the need for sleep. I was totally dependent on sleep meds before, and the alcohol has none of the feeling of that. I feel pretty safe using using the vodka, but I would get concerned if I suddenly needed more and more to get the same result...the classic "habituation" trap of sleep meds.

Also, you're right, the "sweet spot" is where you feel that wave of relaxation coming over you, without crossing over to making the room spin a bit. I find if I totally relax, I hate to use the word meditate, for a few hours after lying down, then take the vodka as a "shot", then immediately lie down again, I'll invariably drift off for a few hours at the very least.
 
snowathlete

snowathlete

Senior Member
Messages
5,374
Location
UK
seems a really common thing that people with ME/CFS either feel notably better, or nottable worse on alcohol. I am in the later group. I'd like to know why the difference. I think there is a poll somewhere showing the proportions...
 
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geraldt52

Senior Member
Messages
602
snowathlete said:
seems a really common thing that people with ME/CFS either feel notably better, or nottable worse on alcohol. I am in the later group. I'd like to know why the difference. I think there is a poll somewhere showing the proportions...
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I wouldn't consider myself to feel better on alcohol. In fact, I stopped drinking entirely when I came down with CFS, because it made me feel dreadful... and I really haven't drank in 25 years. I use the single shot of vodka in the middle of the night just like a medicine. It definitely doesn't make me feel better, but it does help me get some sleep, which makes me feel better. I don't enjoy how it makes me feel when I first wake up in the morning, but it passes pretty quickly.
 
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geraldt52

Senior Member
Messages
602
Thinktank said:
Geraldt52, how log have you been off the klonopin? It sounds very much like protracted withdrawal.
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I stopped the Klonopin in 2000. I would say that I was in withdrawal from it for at least 5 years...I didn't know any better, and had no help, so I stopped it cold-turkey, which is known to have bad outcomes. It was quite literally a living hell. I spent that 5 years and the next 5 years trying every imaginable drug and supplement to try and restore some semblance of sleep, with very poor results. I finally weaned myself off everything, and have used virtually no drugs for the last 5 years. My sleep is still quite poor...the alcohol just mitigates it a bit.
 
MikeV

MikeV

Messages
18
Location
Napa, California
geraldt52 said:
The frequency has varied over the approximately 5 years that I've been doing it, MikeV. Sometimes I'm able to go a week without it, then need it every day for a month.
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That's really good to hear, that you can take as needed OR leave it...
I myself frequently engage in the sleep war... for me I sometimes wake up with the roosters and I know it immediately: that my entire fate for the next 18 hours is 100% dependent on finding SOME WAY / ANY WAY to go back to sleep. If I don't I am going to be out of it and sick. This pre-dawn wakefulness is the classic time for me to go in to feverish and dreadful "what if" "what is to become of me" thinking, so I try to meditate on a memorized Psalm, or I push "play" on a benign (but good) old movie DVD that I have seen 1,000 times. It occupies my mind in a noncommittal and non-exciting way, and I don't mind rolling over, shutting my eyes and missing the pictures because I have seen it 1,000 times and know the pictures by heart. This really works for me; I have been doing it for over a decade and I almost always drift off to sleep.
 
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geraldt52

Senior Member
Messages
602
MikeV said:
... for me I sometimes wake up with the roosters and I know it immediately: that my entire fate for the next 18 hours is 100% dependent on finding SOME WAY / ANY WAY to go back to sleep. If I don't I am going to be out of it and sick. This pre-dawn wakefulness is the classic time for me to go in to feverish and dreadful "what if" "what is to become of me" thinking...
Click to expand...

I always hesitate to give anyone advice about sleep, but next time you find yourself in this position you might want to just try a shot of alcohol of some sort. For me, I think it is that little nudge that gets me back to sleep.
 
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