Daffodil
Senior Member
- Messages
- 5,875
why cant dr. mikovits go work at ruscetti's lab. God someone has to make something happen. someone has to care about lives more than money
-
Welcome to Phoenix Rising!
Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.
Square One: WPI closed down; XRx blog, 10/2/11
- Thread starter justinreilly
- Start date
Sing
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,782
- Location
- New England
Gracenote said it so well in the beginning and others have echoed her feelings and thoughts.
Please let's protect the science and help it progress. I think of those sayings, let's not throw out the baby with the bath water, or sacrifice the child in the war of divorce in which all the energy seems to be going to make one parent right and the other one wrong. I will add the metaphor of the labyrinth--a blind alley has been hit. Now, some backtracking is necessary and seeking another avenue to move forward. There is no need to despair. Let's focus on finding new paths forward.
Please let's protect the science and help it progress. I think of those sayings, let's not throw out the baby with the bath water, or sacrifice the child in the war of divorce in which all the energy seems to be going to make one parent right and the other one wrong. I will add the metaphor of the labyrinth--a blind alley has been hit. Now, some backtracking is necessary and seeking another avenue to move forward. There is no need to despair. Let's focus on finding new paths forward.
Dreambirdie
work in progress
- Messages
- 5,569
- Location
- N. California
Wouldn't that be a nice change.
I find this whole thing so disturbing. It feels like a group primal scream is in order.
Sing
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,782
- Location
- New England
Yeah, a big scream of frustration--some of us, like you Dreambirdie, who are good with graphic imagery, could contribute--I look forward to this--
Then, as our school teachers used to say, "Back to work!"
Then, as our school teachers used to say, "Back to work!"
In general, I am really opposed to speculation and guesswork. I am going to indulge in it a little here, because a couple of things get my hackles up a bit, and make me wonder...
I used to work in an industry that was very uptight about the house having proprietary rights over all intellectual property of the employees. Anything they created or worked on while there was automatically the property of the house, whether it was a piece of code streamlining the process, actual product, or anything else.
During periods of downsizing they would announce a meeting, and once the invitees were in the meeting they would be informed that anyone present had been dismissed as of now, their login accounts had already been closed out and they had four hours to collect their belongings and get out! This was to protect the company from anyone leaving with material they had worked on, or sabotaging anything, which also prevented people from accessing any personal data or work they had stored there. It was outrageous, insulting, and demoralising.
I have to wonder if Dr M was about to come out with something (the sequences? something else?) and this "lock down" is the sign of a copyright war. I just don't see Annette that way. I just don't see the WPI that way.
But if this was all in the works weeks ago as JDJ (anecdotally) reports, how could they go ahead with their fundraiser gala, knowing they were going to shut down?
Has some outside influence insisted they close down or divorce from Dr M?
Okay I am reaching and it is a waste of energy. There truly is no point in guessing and speculating, but the whole thing is so confusing, coming from the one agency we all trusted was clean as a whistle.
The timing with the massively funded new research institute makes me wonder about coincidence vs competition, too.
There is no way to know, and I don't want to foment any more divisiveness or what have you. Mostly I am spewing for no other reason that I don't know what else to do! I am really grateful for everything all the players have done so far to bring awareness, funding, and research to NeuroImmune disease. If everyone can cooperate (for heaven's sake) then the more the merrier, and more power to everyone.
So much has gone so terribly wrong since the 80s when patenting of organisms was permitted. Now science is driven in its vast majority as profit-based scrambling to have the rights to bugs, drugs, and even the test kits. It has ruined the hope of access to effective, affordable medicine, and unbiased, objective pure research.
Okay rant over. I hope this all pans out in the end. There is still so much we don't know.
I used to work in an industry that was very uptight about the house having proprietary rights over all intellectual property of the employees. Anything they created or worked on while there was automatically the property of the house, whether it was a piece of code streamlining the process, actual product, or anything else.
During periods of downsizing they would announce a meeting, and once the invitees were in the meeting they would be informed that anyone present had been dismissed as of now, their login accounts had already been closed out and they had four hours to collect their belongings and get out! This was to protect the company from anyone leaving with material they had worked on, or sabotaging anything, which also prevented people from accessing any personal data or work they had stored there. It was outrageous, insulting, and demoralising.
I have to wonder if Dr M was about to come out with something (the sequences? something else?) and this "lock down" is the sign of a copyright war. I just don't see Annette that way. I just don't see the WPI that way.
But if this was all in the works weeks ago as JDJ (anecdotally) reports, how could they go ahead with their fundraiser gala, knowing they were going to shut down?
Has some outside influence insisted they close down or divorce from Dr M?
Okay I am reaching and it is a waste of energy. There truly is no point in guessing and speculating, but the whole thing is so confusing, coming from the one agency we all trusted was clean as a whistle.
The timing with the massively funded new research institute makes me wonder about coincidence vs competition, too.
There is no way to know, and I don't want to foment any more divisiveness or what have you. Mostly I am spewing for no other reason that I don't know what else to do! I am really grateful for everything all the players have done so far to bring awareness, funding, and research to NeuroImmune disease. If everyone can cooperate (for heaven's sake) then the more the merrier, and more power to everyone.
So much has gone so terribly wrong since the 80s when patenting of organisms was permitted. Now science is driven in its vast majority as profit-based scrambling to have the rights to bugs, drugs, and even the test kits. It has ruined the hope of access to effective, affordable medicine, and unbiased, objective pure research.
Okay rant over. I hope this all pans out in the end. There is still so much we don't know.
Andrew
Senior Member
- Messages
- 2,517
- Location
- Los Angeles, USA
It looks like they closed the lab but not the clinic. I assume the lab will open after things get sorted out.
I can't imagine it being anything but "just till sorted."
Daffodil
Senior Member
- Messages
- 5,875
the research part is closed for good isnt it? the clinic is still open and i think they have only 1 doctor.
The best way to do this is to copy the url's of both and post in the nuts and bolts section; there is a thread there for this sort of request.
well said, Alex
Nielk
Senior Member
- Messages
- 6,970
To add to the questions - Why no comment from WPI about what's going on? There is no news release. Our only source of information as far as I know is the blog mentioned in the first post. This is a strange way for a respected Institute to act especially knowing how many patients rely on them and root for them. Are we sure that this was a voluntary shut down?
My other question is - where does this leave all the patients results from testing at VIP lab? Like Dreambirdie, I feel like roaring like a lion!
My other question is - where does this leave all the patients results from testing at VIP lab? Like Dreambirdie, I feel like roaring like a lion!
Their Twitter feed is now promising there will be a statement (you do not need to use Twitter, in order to read their feed)
http://twitter.com/#!/WPInstitute
SpecialK82
Ohio, USA
- Messages
- 993
- Location
- Ohio, USA
WSJ article just out
Amy Dockser Marcus just put out a new article about the WPI mess, she says Mikovits was fired:
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2011/10/03/scientist-who-led-xmrv-research-team-let-go/
Judy A. Mikovits, the embattled scientist who led the research team that found a possible link between the retrovirus XMRV and patients with chronic fatigue syndrome, has been terminated from her job as director of research at the Whittemore Peterson Institute for Neuro-Immune Disease in Reno, Nev.
The controversial finding, published in a 2009 Science paper, excited patients and researchers who have long been searching for a cause for chronic fatigue syndrome, which has an array of debilitating symptoms that include cognitive difficulties, severe pain, and overwhelming fatigue. On Sept. 22, the authors of the paper, including Mikovits, published a partial retraction of the findings in Science, after two of the 13 study authors found contamination in blood samples from patients.
A week later, Mikovits was fired, she told Health Blog.
In a letter from Whittemore Peterson President Annette Whittemore to Mikovits, which was reviewed by Health Blog, Mikovits was terminated after refusing Whittemores direct request that cell lines be turned over to another scientist at the institute who wanted to do research on them.
In a letter of response, Mikovits said that the cells were for use in a specific NIH-funded project and that it would be inappropriate to use them for another purpose without her knowledge and consent.
Mikovits is a principal investigator on an ongoing NIH-funded study that will test CFS patients and healthy controls for XMRV or related viruses, and she said that she plans to take her grant with her to a new institution where she wants to continue her work on CFS.
But like many things in the long-running XMRV saga, this may not be simple. Institutions must agree to relinquish grants, and at this writing, it was not clear that the Whittemore-Peterson institute is willing to let the XMRV project go.
Weve reached out to the Institute for comment, and will provide an update when we hear back
Amy Dockser Marcus just put out a new article about the WPI mess, she says Mikovits was fired:
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2011/10/03/scientist-who-led-xmrv-research-team-let-go/
Judy A. Mikovits, the embattled scientist who led the research team that found a possible link between the retrovirus XMRV and patients with chronic fatigue syndrome, has been terminated from her job as director of research at the Whittemore Peterson Institute for Neuro-Immune Disease in Reno, Nev.
The controversial finding, published in a 2009 Science paper, excited patients and researchers who have long been searching for a cause for chronic fatigue syndrome, which has an array of debilitating symptoms that include cognitive difficulties, severe pain, and overwhelming fatigue. On Sept. 22, the authors of the paper, including Mikovits, published a partial retraction of the findings in Science, after two of the 13 study authors found contamination in blood samples from patients.
A week later, Mikovits was fired, she told Health Blog.
In a letter from Whittemore Peterson President Annette Whittemore to Mikovits, which was reviewed by Health Blog, Mikovits was terminated after refusing Whittemores direct request that cell lines be turned over to another scientist at the institute who wanted to do research on them.
In a letter of response, Mikovits said that the cells were for use in a specific NIH-funded project and that it would be inappropriate to use them for another purpose without her knowledge and consent.
Mikovits is a principal investigator on an ongoing NIH-funded study that will test CFS patients and healthy controls for XMRV or related viruses, and she said that she plans to take her grant with her to a new institution where she wants to continue her work on CFS.
But like many things in the long-running XMRV saga, this may not be simple. Institutions must agree to relinquish grants, and at this writing, it was not clear that the Whittemore-Peterson institute is willing to let the XMRV project go.
Weve reached out to the Institute for comment, and will provide an update when we hear back
Thanks for the info SpecialK - just hoping she can take her grant with her to a new institution to continue her valuable work XMRV and related viruses in ME/CFS. But surely isn't she too valuable to lose in the first place. But I don't know all the facts of course.
ixchelkali
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,107
- Location
- Long Beach, CA
It's there now. They've been posting pictures from the "I Hope You Dance" fundraiser. No statement yet about closure.
Nielk
Senior Member
- Messages
- 6,970
WPI just stated on FB " we have not been shut down".
ixchelkali
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,107
- Location
- Long Beach, CA
This is interesting, because the WPI is listed as recipient on the award, as near as I can tell. http://taggs.hhs.gov/RecipInfo.CFM?SelEin=LCYqTy8%2BPCpMQiw%2FV1NaOEsK
It looks like things are going to get ugly. I foresee figure-pointing and mudslinging. Meanwhile, people like McClure and Wessely are probably lapping it up. Ugh. Hibernation is looking like an attractive option right now.
Bob
Senior Member
- Messages
- 16,455
- Location
- England (south coast)
That's the best idea I've heard all week! :sleepy: (Especially as I've got my first cold of the autumn, and it's a horrible one!)