SPINA THYR a research tool to evaluate thyroid function, deiodinases activity, TH resistance

[Iritu1021]

I feel very good on cynoplus but get symptoms of either hyperthyroidism or increased stress hormones (which is not necessarily hyperthyroidism but could be caused by reverse t3 or something else) when I take cynomel alone sometimes. This doesn't necessarily mean I need T4 only but maybe indicates I need a combination.

Glad to hear you're doing better. Just out of curiosity, what were your numbers on SPINA?

 

[frozenborderline]

Glad to hear you're doing better. Just out of curiosity, what were your numbers on SPINA?

The last time I checked (a year ago or more) they indicated thyroid resistance iirc. but haven't checked much recently as i don't really have the energy to organize all the papers and labwork etc

 

[frozenborderline]

I'm still getting odd up and downs with this treatment but it seems better than the alternative (nothing). for instance tonight i feel sleepy and weak after taking cynoplus, yet the fact that I feel like I could fall asleep seems better than the alternative, and maybe indicates an underlying need for sleep that's now made accessible because treating metabolism allows for better sleep?

 

[frozenborderline]

Yesterday I had more energy than usual and was up and about a little more, but today am more tired. I don't know what this means and still worry that this treatment may fail but I'm trying to just be patient and consistent

 

[frozenborderline]

I had a feeling like the thyroid dose tonight wore off and was back to the usual feelings of pain and racing heart from stress and air hunger. I took some progesterone and some methylene blue, and aspirin and this went away dramatically. I don't know what to attribute it to though.

 

[frozenborderline]

I'm definitely getting more appetite overall, which is nice, and i'm also getting some odd cravings, almost pica-like? I don't think this latter thing is a bad sign at all, intuitively I think it's likely that increasing metabolism has revealed some other problem, some nutrient deficiency of some kind. I tend to think cravings are indicative of a need, rather than something to be dismissed.

I was reading about homemade sodium acetate, and even though I've never had sodium acetate, I immediatlely got a craving just imagining chewing on some crunchy salt (but not salty, vinegary tasting and crystalline), whcih is so so specific and odd. But maybe it's not for the specific sodium acetate but just another mineral, cravings for crunchy things can be?

 

[Iritu1021]

I'm definitely getting more appetite overall, which is nice, and i'm also getting some odd cravings, almost pica-like? I don't think this latter thing is a bad sign at all, intuitively I think it's likely that increasing metabolism has revealed some other problem, some nutrient deficiency of some kind. I tend to think cravings are indicative of a need, rather than something to be dismissed.

I was reading about homemade sodium acetate, and even though I've never had sodium acetate, I immediatlely got a craving just imagining chewing on some crunchy salt (but not salty, vinegary tasting and crystalline), whcih is so so specific and odd. But maybe it's not for the specific sodium acetate but just another mineral, cravings for crunchy things can be?

Yes, I had very intense food cravings when I went on T3. I wouldn't overanalyze it. Just listen to your body and eat whatever appeals to you.

 

[Iritu1021]

I had a feeling like the thyroid dose tonight wore off and was back to the usual feelings of pain and racing heart from stress and air hunger. I took some progesterone and some methylene blue, and aspirin and this went away dramatically. I don't know what to attribute it to though.

Sounds like the typical T3 rollercoaster.

 

[frozenborderline]

Sounds like the typical T3 rollercoaster.

thing is I don't think the symptoms were worsened after, just back to normal (normal being "bad"--I was quite desperate in pain and possible lactic acidosis before I started it. I"m not having much trouble w mania. I am also not reporting/documenting enough because my parents are gone and despite momentary increase in energy from the thyroid, i'm still not 100% and so this is not a totally accurate picture of my "experiment"

 

[frozenborderline]

Yes, I had very intense food cravings when I went on T3. I wouldn't overanalyze it. Just listen to your body and eat whatever appeals to you.

But that's the thing--it was a craving for something but I don't know what exactly. something that doesn't exist
I'll try and get all the important nutrients

 

[frozenborderline]

thing is I don't think the symptoms were worsened after, just back to normal (normal being "bad"--I was quite desperate in pain and possible lactic acidosis before I started it. I"m not having much trouble w mania. I am also not reporting/documenting enough because my parents are gone and despite momentary increase in energy from the thyroid, i'm still not 100% and so this is not a totally accurate picture of my "experiment"

I read your account of what happened with your thyroid experiment and while some things may be similar (i've had a couple times where it felt like T3 was a little much, and felt depressed after sometimes) it's been far less dramatic and I feel like overall slightly good. Maybe neutral since I may have overdone it a little and tried to do things that tire me out after I get some energy. none of the dramatic swings in POTS.

What I described above sort of sounds like that but the context is that before I even trialled thyroid, I was doing awful to the extent that I would be in pain and out of breath with racing heart even lying down often, felt like doing aerobic exercise. This is overall lessened and despite not taking round-the-clock re-ups on thyroid I at least don't feel worse than I was without it, usually better (although today's not a particularly good day--pushed myself too hard in excitement)

 

[frozenborderline]

I read your account of what happened with your thyroid experiment and while some things may be similar (i've had a couple times where it felt like T3 was a little much, and felt depressed after sometimes) it's been far less dramatic and I feel like overall slightly good. Maybe neutral since I may have overdone it a little and tried to do things that tire me out after I get some energy. none of the dramatic swings in POTS.

What I described above sort of sounds like that but the context is that before I even trialled thyroid, I was doing awful to the extent that I would be in pain and out of breath with racing heart even lying down often, felt like doing aerobic exercise. This is overall lessened and despite not taking round-the-clock re-ups on thyroid I at least don't feel worse than I was without it, usually better (although today's not a particularly good day--pushed myself too hard in excitement)

I'm getting more of these problems

well

to be clear, the problems I'm getting now is just kind of the thyroid not working strongly enough and me not wanting to increase dose. I am not getting the POTS worsening or any dramatic symptoms of withdrawal, or even depression. but i'm just back to being physically insanely fatigued and in a state of pain and lactic acidosis. But I don't want to increase dose with thyroid so idk wat to do. I mean I don't want to increase it past a physiological dose but I suppose i could take small doses more oftne

also part of it might be me overestimating the energy I had and crashing. parents aren't here and grandfather is here cookng for me but gets angry if I don't do things that i don't have energy to do. so maybe i've been pushing myself too much

 

[frozenborderline]

i'm kind of just in pain and alone and scared again :/ . really felt like i was getting somewhere

 

[Iritu1021]

i'm kind of just in pain and alone and scared again :/ . really felt like i was getting somewhere

Hi sorry, I missed your posts. For some reason I don't always get notifications so if you need to reach me it's better to PM me instead of posting here.
Sorry to hear, you're feeling worse. The real problems with Armour began for me after the initial effects wore off but I kept pushing the dose to re-create the positive effects. I warned you that there is a honeymoon period and then it usually wears off. It's a well known phenomenon in CFS and most CFS doctors know and write about it. But at least it provided you with a glimpse into normality and renewed your hope. There are better ways to get thyroid hormone to work for you than taking T3.

 

[frozenborderline]

Hi sorry, I missed your posts. For some reason I don't always get notifications so if you need to reach me it's better to PM me instead of posting here.
Sorry to hear, you're feeling worse. The real problems with Armour began for me after the initial effects wore off but I kept pushing the dose to re-create the positive effects. I warned you that there is a honeymoon period and then it usually wears off. It's a well known phenomenon in CFS and most CFS doctors know and write about it. But at least it provided you with a glimpse into normality and renewed your hope. There are better ways to get thyroid hormone to work for you than taking T3.

The odd thing is that I didn't really get extreme mania or the POTS upon withdrawal that u discussed in your piece on thyroid. I'm also still at a very small dose so I'm still wondering about increasing it some while trying to stay within physiological doses roughly and not wrecking my endocrine system.

On the other hand, I got my (cheap) copy of the blanchard book. It is used and it came with a signature from the doctor to whoever owned it! It seems like a very concise, common sense guide based on clinical practice, so I'm happy to have that as an addition to the other perspectives I've looked at. Doctor should be compounding the 1 mcg thyroid soon, just hasn't been returning calls

 

[frozenborderline]

I still have a lot of leeway to increase dose, and am not really close to the maximum dose range for approximating physiological doses, or what's recommended by the method I'm using, but I guess I'm concerned that i'll push it up to that dose range and still not get the right effects. Hopefully there's a non-linear relationship though and I could get better returns with slightly higher or more frequent dosing.

 

[Jackb23]

The only concern I have with gabapentin is that it's serotonergic, to some extent. almost very drug is dirty, and I guess we have to weigh the good vs bad. The reason I'm curious is that I was a moderate recreational drug user and supplement user before I got sick and for the first period when I got sick, which allowed me to witness very strange changes in how I react to drugs that I believe may be characteristic of illness.

The horrible hangovers from phenibut, for example, didn't happen until I'd been ill for awhile. Stimulants, which used to make me relaxed (for ADHD diagnosis) started causing extreme adrenergic effects.

I have this same effect. Used to take Focalin from middle school to beginning of college, but once I got ill I had an odd hyper adrenergic reaction. Drugs that I use to also use occasionally include psychedelics and weed, but these now give me terrible anxiety. I also can't take anything that remotely touches serotonin (like DayQuil) or I have to go to the ER within a couple of hours due to my reaction.

 

[frozenborderline]

I have this same effect. Used to take Focalin from middle school to beginning of college, but once I got ill I had an odd hyper adrenergic reaction. Drugs that I use to also use occasionally include psychedelics and weed, but these now give me terrible anxiety. I also can't take anything that remotely touches serotonin (like DayQuil) or I have to go to the ER within a couple of hours due to my reaction.

do you mind reposting this in the thread i just made on odd reactions to stims post-illness? great anecdotal info!

 

[frozenborderline]

I have this same effect. Used to take Focalin from middle school to beginning of college, but once I got ill I had an odd hyper adrenergic reaction. Drugs that I use to also use occasionally include psychedelics and weed, but these now give me terrible anxiety. I also can't take anything that remotely touches serotonin (like DayQuil) or I have to go to the ER within a couple of hours due to my reaction.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/odd-reactions-to-stimulants-post-illness.61691

 

[frozenborderline]

Maybe I'll make a new thread for this but: Anybody have a recommendation for "open-minded" but competent endocrinologists in the Northeast US? This would be best but also if you have lists of ones elsewhere in the US I would be open to hearing that too.
My CFS doctor, quite reasonably, doesn't want to deal extensively with thyroid stuff, but she will prescribe me one month worth of thyroid meds (in this case compounded for the blanchard protocol)
Anyway, by "open-minded" I mean willing to treat more by symptoms than blood tests.