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Sexism in science: Peer editor tells female researchers their study needs a male author

eafw

Senior Member
Messages
936
Location
UK
women shouldn't have to put up with this kind of crap

Part of the problem is the culture and thinking that says it would be good idea to invite or send someone like him to address the conference in the first place, rather than a woman in STEM or even someone from the social science/anthropology type subjects who would know what they're talking about (based on actual research that's been done in this area).

This is at an international gathering of science journalists and researchers, and the best they can come up with is some feckless reactionary "women are cry babies". Hopefully the rest of the conference will be of higher quality.
 

eafw

Senior Member
Messages
936
Location
UK
Science has a lot more socially unaware people, I think

This is a slight myth, but also a bit of a poor excuse.

If you look at what "socially unaware" people actually tend to do it is the generally harmless social awkwardness - poor eye contact, tedious monologues, struggle to make ordinary chit chat about the weather or the best place to get a nice cup of tea. This is people who want to eat lunch on their own and don't like crowds, and nothing wrong with that.

If however you have the political wherewithal to smarm yourself to an invite only private lunch at an international conference and then start on with the "ladies, hur, amirite" schtick then that is really something quite different all together.
 

JaimeS

Senior Member
Messages
3,408
Location
Silicon Valley, CA
If however you have the political wherewithal to smarm yourself to an invite only private lunch at an international conference and then start on with the "ladies, hur, amirite" schtick then that is really something quite different all together.

Okay, here's the crux of the problem. Let's be real: no one who knew this guy well didn't know he held these ideas. Good guys who are less proactive would probably listen to him and smile and nod, thinking, "geez, this guy's an ass," without saying anything. Other sexist men understood this rhetoric as identifying him as a 'real guy' they could talk to, identify with, BECAUSE "ladies, hur, amirite".

They just didn't think he'd say that in front of a big crowd and in the presence of flashing cameras, because everyone knows better than to speak of their racist/sexist/homophobic/generally hateful ideas in public... right?

The problem here is that this dude was in such a bubble of yes-men that he had NO CLUE this kind of statement could produce any reaction other than silence, or "yeah, man... the ladies." His behavior isolated him such that he began to believe that attitude was something everyone believed, but only HE in his REAL-MAN-ness was brave enough to say. In other words, that sentiment has gotten him outright admiration in other circles for his bravery in speaking his mind.

The other option is that he's literally lost his mind and his actions exist in a society-less bubble, which... Occam's Razor, you know?

-J
 

Snow Leopard

Hibernating
Messages
5,902
Location
South Australia
As I said, science is still a very social field and calling out those in power will harm your career prospects. If you are a man, you can afford to overlook it. If you are a woman, then either way you are going to get hurt.

Plenty of men in other fields say the very same things,the difference is that the movement towards eliminating sexism in STEM is now finally starting to gain some momentum.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
This is ... a bit of a poor excuse.

I agree.

Perhaps my mention of programmers and social awareness threw everyone off, it was a misleading example. Or perhaps its not clear why I chose "social awareness" and not communication, or empathy.

Social awareness is NOT communication, empathy or introversion/extroversion. Aspects of social awareness can include all these things, but its about understanding how one fits into society, from interpersonal relationships, including work relationships, to global politics. Its the complete picture, including both the small and large views of society.

Most of us fail at the big picture. I am 54 and I am still learning. It does not help that a lot of social awareness is not particularly rational.

@JaimeS came close to pointing it out when she wrote about Tim Hunt possibly being surrounded by a culture of people who are always agreeable. Insular subcultures that have their own values and are disconnected from society are socially unaware. One individual made the blunder, but I suspect you will find many more that haven't publicly blundered yet, from that same subculture.

My experience of those working in science is that they are often poor at social awareness. This does not make them bad communicators, or lacking in empathy, or introverts. My experience is mainly limited to academic scientists working in my state in Australia. Maybe its different elsewhere.

Putting groups of others down is something that arises in these subgroups, but its also about power and control. You demonize some group and all of a sudden its more OK to act unfairly toward them, and make derogatory statements. Indeed we are seeing this at play with the disabled in the UK. Its such a broad phenomenon that I think we can describe most -isms under one single -ism, culturalism. Their subculture is better, so yours is worse.

This is my opinion, I am not aware of others discussing it this way. It does however strike me that prejudice against women, or some ethnic or racial groups, or religion, or age, or work status or disability, all operate in similar ways. None of them are acceptable to me.

It is ironic that I have welcomed a new neighbour, who I think may be Islamic. I didn't ask, its not particularly important to whether or not they are a good neighbour. What is ironic to me is that I did this in the week there was a large community meeting about what to do about all the moslems arriving in my area. I suspect my answer would not go over well. My answer is to say hello and be friendly.

People react when power and control are under threat. They do not always react rationally or fairly.That can include whole societies after bad times.
 

worldbackwards

Senior Member
Messages
2,051
And by complete coincidence, tomorrow's headlines...
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