Severe ME/CFS - Media coverage in The Sun (UK)

[Valentijn]

I don't know anything about it, I'm afraid. Your comment (and loads of others) maybe be held in moderation.

They're probably waiting until their lone literate employee can come in to approve the comments

 

[sarah darwins]

The Sun has let me type in a comment but then nothing more happened except that I got that thing that looks like a worm going round in a circle

I think that's a gif of Rod Liddle.

Boom boom!

 

[Mary]

Speaking of psychobabble and AIDS, this paper is a good reminder of how much things can change:

The group-fantasy origins of AIDS.

Proposes a psychosocial origin of acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS), which lies on the cusp between immunology, pathology, and psychology. It is argued that (a) AIDS is a typical example of epidemic hysteria, (b) the epidemic has at its core an unconscious group delusion that can be called the group fantasy of scapegoating, (c) the same fantasy complex underlies this scapegoating ritual as was found for leprosy during the Middle Ages, and (d) the proximal and distal causes of the tensions giving rise to the epidemic can be found in the group psychology of the US. A combination of unconscious group tensions brought about a subtle and sophisticated sacrificial witch hunt, in which the participants were the Moral Majority and an assortment of other conservative groups (as hunters) and the nation's drug addicts and homosexuals (as hunted). Both of these subgroups are acting out group sanctioned and group delegated roles, and these attacks have resulted in an epidemic of depression based mostly on shame. The core sign of AIDS, the reduction of cell-mediated immunity, is one of the typical vegetative signs of depression.

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1985-14989-001

I've read this and reread it and cannot believe this was published somewhere - it goes beyond psychobabble to full-blow psychosis I believe!

 

[A.B.]

I've read this and reread it and cannot believe this was published somewhere - it goes beyond psychobabble to full-blow psychosis I believe!

It gets even stranger. This paper was published after the announcement that a virus was probably the cause. And the author died of AIDS later.

At a 23 April 1984 press conference in Washington, D.C., Margaret Heckler, Secretary of Health and Human Services, announced that Gallo and his co-workers had discovered a virus that is the "probable" cause of AIDS. This virus was initially named HTLV-III.[18] That same year, Casper Schmidt responded to Gallo's papers with "The Group-Fantasy Origins of AIDS", Journal of Psychohistory.[19] Schmidt posited that AIDS was not an actual disease, but rather an example of "epidemic hysteria" in which groups of people are subconsciously acting out social conflicts. Schmidt compared AIDS to documented cases of epidemic hysteria in the past which were mistakenly thought to be infectious. (Schmidt himself would later die of AIDS in 1994.)[20][21]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_denialism

On a side note, will we see a Wikipedia page on ME/CFS denialism in the future?

 

[Aurator]

They're probably waiting until their lone literate employee can come in to approve the comments

It'll be three o'clock tomorrow then probably, when the employee finishes at nursery school.

 

[JohnCB]

I think that's a gif of Rod Liddle.

Boom boom!

I wish he would gurgle down his own plug hole.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

It gets even stranger. This paper was published after the announcement that a virus was probably the cause. And the author died of AIDS later.

At a 23 April 1984 press conference in Washington, D.C., Margaret Heckler, Secretary of Health and Human Services, announced that Gallo and his co-workers had discovered a virus that is the "probable" cause of AIDS. This virus was initially named HTLV-III.[18] That same year, Casper Schmidt responded to Gallo's papers with "The Group-Fantasy Origins of AIDS", Journal of Psychohistory.[19] Schmidt posited that AIDS was not an actual disease, but rather an example of "epidemic hysteria" in which groups of people are subconsciously acting out social conflicts. Schmidt compared AIDS to documented cases of epidemic hysteria in the past which were mistakenly thought to be infectious. (Schmidt himself would later die of AIDS in 1994.)[20][21]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_denialism

On a side note, will we see a Wikipedia page on ME/CFS denialism in the future?

while ago I mentioned some crazy psych BS about HIV from back then
the denial was in the minds of the psychs!

 

[jimells]

The Mail's standard "I had ME but after six weeks being beaten with live eels I was fine and emerged with THIS BEACH BODY!"

Thank you for this.

 

[Old Bones]

The early-years explanation I remember for the cause of AIDS is "guilt over living a deviant lifestyle". Sheesh!

 

[Sidereal]

And the author died of AIDS later.

Hate to say it but I laughed.

 

[justy]

she has even managed to shake off her sedatory [sic] lifestyle by enrolling in an art and design course at Plymouth College of Art

.

I think that our standards have slipped so low that people here think this is a good article - it might be 'not bad for the Sun' but I think it is appalling to accept such low quality - the headline alone makes it seem like a big laugh.

But it 's probably fair to say that people with this horrible illness who do recover probably go into a remission, and it requires significant changes in lifestyle – much less stress, improvements to work-life balance, better nutrition – for the symptoms not to flare up months or even years later

I'm not keen on this from Tony - looks like 'changes in lifestyle' and a better work life balance are the key to getting well. This is complete nonsense. A lot of people who relapse after long remissions (i'm one of them) do so because of viral illnesses. I think this could have been put better to reflect the biological nature of the disease. For example mentioning keeping the immune system healthy etc. I had no idea I could relapse - I just thought I was cured. 10 years later I became severely sick and have remained so for the past 7 years. And I had less stress and great nutrition (as I always have had).

The Mail's standard "I had ME but after six weeks being beaten with live eels I was fine and emerged with THIS BEACH BODY!"

I had to mention this again - thanks for the laughs!

 

[chipmunk1]

I've read this and reread it and cannot believe this was published somewhere - it goes beyond psychobabble to full-blow psychosis I believe!

No it's called psychoanalysis.

The full paper is far more insane than the abstract leads to to believe by the way. Read it. It's incredible.

http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/csfantasy.htm

The destructive forces at our disposal have forced a total reorganization of our thinking, since there is no longer the possibility of a winnable war between the superpowers. We resort to fantasies, as in the case of World War 11 which is currently being touted, somewhat nostalgically, as "The Good War."(47) The pattern of warfare for both superpowers - China is ignored as a superpower for purposes of fantasy, since one has only two parents - has become one of war-by-proxy or displacement wars. Thus, Korea, Vietnam, and Central America for the U.S., and uprisings in the Eastern Bloc countries and Afghanistan for the US.S.R. This curb on phallic-aggressive acting-out by the US. had led to widespread fears of being effeminate or impotent (fantasy: "We can't screw them, therefore we must be women.") As can be seen from the cartoons from the early part of the Reagan years (Figures 7 & 8), most of our phallic potency was injected into the Russians, who took on a frighteningly and humiliatingly masculine aspect, while America felt relatively impotent. These are, I think, the roots for the great need for "a winnable war" (between the superpowers) which is so apparent at this time. This curb on phallic-assertiveness created a feeling of gender dysphoria, which was then injected into the nations's homosexuals in fantasy. ("It's not we who feel weak and impotent, it's them.") This weakness and impotence "of America" was painfully conscious for all during the Carter years, and part of Reagan's mandate was to turn this around. After the invasion of Grenada the 'balance of potency" was completely reversed (Figure 9), so that we felt proud again, or as the phrase went, 'America [was] standing tall again."

 

[Mary]

No it's called psychoanalysis.

The full paper is far more insane than the abstract leads to to believe by the way. Read it. It's incredible.

Wow - I just scanned a little bit, cannot read the whole thing. Am almost speechless - but what seems worse than the literally insane paper is that it was PUBLISHED! But I guess this theory never caught on (too many people dying!), unlike what has been done to CFS/ME .....

 

[chipmunk1]

Wow - I just scanned a little bit, cannot read the whole thing. Am almost speechless - but what seems worse than the literally insane paper is that it was PUBLISHED! But I guess this theory never caught on (too many people dying!), unlike what has been done to CFS/ME .....

an other reason was that the proponents died so the theory was self-limiting.

It was written by a psychiatrist and i think this type of psychobabble was fairly common in medicine in the early eighties and the decades before that. There were a lot of crazy ideas around back then. For example it was believed by some that some people who underwent psychoanalysis and got diabetes had developed the autoimmune disease subconsciously because they did not want to have their psyche analyzed.

Other ideas were that schizophrenia was caused by family constellations and not wanting to undergo psych treatment for homosexuality meant that you had lost your mind and you needed to be treated against your will.

 

[Chrisb]

I always thought that the fact that in order to become a psychoanalyst one had to have undergone psychotherapy told one all one needed to know about the subject.

 

[Little Bluestem]

The full paper is far more insane than the abstract leads to to believe by the way. Read it. It's incredible.

I find it ironically appropriate that the figures that accompany this article are cartoons.

 

[alex3619]

I've read this and reread it and cannot believe this was published somewhere - it goes beyond psychobabble to full-blow psychosis I believe!

Similar arguments have been made for MS, cancer (especially breast cancer), heart disease, gastric ulcers and so on. Its a long familiar story. Simon Wessely has made arguments that resemble this, about ME.

 

[Mary]

Similar arguments have been made for MS, cancer (especially breast cancer), heart disease, gastric ulcers and so on. Its a long familiar story. Simon Wessely has made arguments that resemble this, about ME.

Right, I'm aware of this. It's just they don't usually assign the psychosomatic label to illnesses which are killing thousands (I guess apart from breast cancer) - sort of like saying the Black Plague was a revolt against the institutional power of the church or something. I've often thought that if we were dying from CFS/ME, the world would take us a little more seriously.

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

.

I think that our standards have slipped so low that people here think this is a good article - it might be 'not bad for the Sun' but I think it is appalling to accept such low quality - the headline alone makes it seem like a big laugh

Yeah this is much more like the Sun. Published yesterday...

Feel like hounding them for a public apology. I thought the offensive 'yuppie flu' was long gone.

 

[halcyon]

Oh come on. How many other illnesses are still subjected to such blatant use of epithets. Does the Sun still call people retards when referring to the mentally handicapped?