The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Rich or fredd: Methylation treatment with positive ANA and possible autoimmunity?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by lampkld2, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. lampkld2


    Hey guys, Just found out i have a positive ANA with heavy matrilineal rheumatic autoimmune disease history (mom and grandma). I haven't been officially diagnosed with anything yet.

    I also have MTHFR, CBS and COMT snps and possible Hg poisoning and maybe a chronic infection.

    I did great on MB12, Mfolate et all for a one day, then was hit with brainfog, fasiculations and parasthesia and foggyness.

    I thought this was a detox...was this possible an autoimmune flareup instead? should I stay away from methylation cycle supps? Frustrating cause obviously I need them... I felt much better.. :( Looks like I'm stuck.

    Any advice???

    Getting a urine AA test soon, hopefully that will shed light on things.
  2. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

    Have you checked specifically for thyroid antobodies? Fredd often says when you open up the methyl cycle paths ways (clear that blockage) you run into other pathways that are blocked (but which you never experienced before due to the methyl bloclk). For instance, you need mB12 to make thyroxin. I have suspected that the people who bail from his protocol may be low in copper and hyperthyroid (even if only subclinically) which would be an auto-immune flareup. When I was very hyperthyroid I discontinued mB12 for a few days to let the thyroid hormones clear. It seemed to help a little but not that much. If it is hyperthyroid you have to keep it down whatever you have to do, but you have to get control of that problem so you can take the methylation protocol. (There are good websites to help you if that is your problem). Fredd and several others said the methyl cycle did not affect their thyroid med doses, but I believe they were all hypo, so not sure they can speak definitely on hyperthyroid. ANA can be lupus, RA, or other things too, in which case it could take a lot f sleuthing to figure out which biochemical pathway may have gone wrong to even answer the question as whether mB12 or methyls affect it.

    In any state of autoimmune, the first thing you want to do (especially as you are waiting now and do not know exactly what autoimmune condition you have) is to take anti-oxidants. Auto-immune is a high oxidant state. You can start by stopping the damge as much as possible with anti-oxidants.

    Good luck. Don't give up. I am intolerant to iodine, which is totally stupid as it is required for health. I have not given up on trying to sneak in small doses and raise my copper levels and whatever else I can think of to be able to take iodine again.
  3. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

    Syracuse, Utah, USA
    Sorry, I'm not Rich or Fred, but don't see them here. I also had some odd responses to mB12 at first, and some energy bursts but then also a lot of extra fatigue (I was using injections of mB12 at that time). My guess is that Rich will say you probably drained something, perhaps folate or some other substance. But there is also the possibility that B12 activated and then depleted a number of neurotransmitters or other essential nutrients. So basically, mB12 alone may not be good for you, but that does not mean you don't need B12. In my own case I have to take magnesium chloride, vitamin C, bioflavonoids (I use Ester-C which has them), methylfolate, and extra B6 for mB12 to work right. And some extra antioxidants also help (Vit E, berry powder, cacao, etc).

    Maybe there is an autoimmune response as well, B12 does support some immune functions, I don't think anyone knows the details yet about the new autoimmune studies and how that will effect vitamin- and mineral-based treatment recommends.
  4. Joopiter76

    Joopiter76 Senior Member

    I can say from my eyperience that starting or increasyng methyl-B12 can leads to pin and needles. this goes away. methylation is needed to control the T-cells and the information they give to the B-cells. so hypomethylation can lead to immune dysfunction. Be careful with hte B6 as it stimulates CBS which is anyway overstimulated in most PWCs. I wouldnt worry that much about a littel paraesthesia, I remember I was when it hapento me. It took about 2 weeks to go away but came back when I increased the dose. Now problem anymore. I would suggest to check intensively for Borrelia and for Bartonella as both cause paraesthesia and I know many many people with CFS who have one or both of this.

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