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" Researchers identify new spectrum disorder called ALPIM syndrome.." They are including CFS

Snow Leopard

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In general I agree, but with the brain being involved I am not so sure. Hypothetically f the pattern of damage, from the same type of damage, were a little different, then the symptoms would be different too. Yet the diseases is the same, its the expression that varies..

I would consider evidence of particular part of the brain being dysfunctional or damaged to be specific.

We ultimately need to move away from symptom questionnaires precisely because they are non-specific.
 
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My best guess is that a lot of patients at the anxiety clinic have established biomedical diseases as well. The researcher probably noticed this, and realized these diseases are "co-morbid" at a rate much higher than would be expected.

Instead of examining their diagnostic procedures for anxiety, or exploring the research regarding symptoms in those disease which might resemble anxiety, he prematurely concluded that he'd found a new disease.

But there also seems to be 100% acceptance that the biomedical diseases/aspects are biomedical, and no suggestion that psychotherapy or rationed medical care will improve them. So he's probably not a hardcore evangelist psychobabbler, just a bit daft :p
 

alex3619

Senior Member
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13,810
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Logan, Queensland, Australia
I would consider evidence of particular part of the brain being dysfunctional or damaged to be specific.

We ultimately need to move away from symptom questionnaires precisely because they are non-specific.

I think if you took this approach the risk might be that ME would be 1000 different diseases. Brain dysfunction is not like an infection. I think we might wind up needing an entirely new classification method, some kind of multidimensional spectrum categorization. This would apply to psych and brain disorders. Its a lot like the issue we are facing with complex multifactorial genetic problems. This does need to be based on objective analysis though, not psychological theory that is not measurable. So some kind of low level brain scan, or scans in combination, might be needed. Medicine is years, decades or centuries from being able to do this.
 
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alex3619

Senior Member
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Logan, Queensland, Australia
Instead of examining their diagnostic procedures for anxiety, or exploring the research regarding symptoms in those disease which might resemble anxiety, he prematurely concluded that he'd found a new disease.
As has been pointed out, POTS can induce something resembling anxiety due to tachycardia etc. ME could, if you didn't ask the right questions, vaguely resemble comorbid depression. The dual diagnosis thing is probably, in many cases, because the psychiatric diagnostic testing is highly flawed.

We do have objective tests for many genetic disorders, for example, but we don't for most psych disorders. The kind of approach used in this paper seems (in absentia of reading the whole paper) to be typical of where psychiatric research goes wrong. They base categorization on symptom clustering, and often unproven causative theory, not any real understanding of the mechanisms.
 
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Well that's interesting, 'cause I looked up "somatic syndrome" and the entry never mentioned that.
Yeah, they come up with a new label every couple years, as patients learn what the old term really means. Anything with "somatic" in it is suspect due to that sort of psychobabble abuse of terminology, but by itself "somatic" is pretty straightforward.
 

Bob

Senior Member
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16,455
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England (south coast)
Yep, "somatic syndrome" or "functional somatic syndrome" is one of their new favourite terms for psychosomatic. It's designed to confuse everyone.

It took me a long time to work out that 'somatic', by itself, means physical.
 
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jimells

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northern Maine
Yeah, they come up with a new label every couple years, as patients learn what the old term really means. Anything with "somatic" in it is suspect due to that sort of psychobabble abuse of terminology, but by itself "somatic" is pretty straightforward.

So what makes a symptom "somatic" as opposed to just being an "ordinary" symptom?
 

Kyla

ᴀɴɴɪᴇ ɢꜱᴀᴍᴩᴇʟ
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Canada
"Soma" literally means body in Greek (which is the language most medical terms come from.
Somatic = of the body

Saying "somatic symptoms" is somewhat nonsense, as all symptoms are somatic in the sense of being of the body.

Using this to mean psychosomatic is some cagey word-play.
Ie - I would guess this allows one to suggest something is caused by the mind, even when it is technically a physical change in the body.
 

Snow Leopard

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So what makes a symptom "somatic" as opposed to just being an "ordinary" symptom?

It's a hangover from the mind-body dualism days.

It is really a question of directionality - are the symptoms primarily as a result of behaviour or cognitions or due to self-perpetuating biological dysfunction. (the latter being "somatic")
 

jimells

Senior Member
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northern Maine
It is really a question of directionality - are the symptoms primarily as a result of behaviour or cognitions or due to self-perpetuating biological dysfunction. (the latter being "somatic")

Sorry, I'm still having trouble trying to understand the concept. Symptoms due to biological dysfunction are "somatic" but symptoms "caused" by behavior or cognitions are just "symptoms"? This somehow seems backwards, but I can't articulate why. It seems to imply that most symptoms are driven by behavior and that "somatic" symptoms driven by biology are the exception.

In the "real" world inhabited by actual living people the idea that most symptoms are not biology is of course ludicrous. But in the minds of psychobabblers, well, I can see where they might believe this, or at least pretend to.
 

Bob

Senior Member
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16,455
Location
England (south coast)
Sorry, I'm still having trouble trying to understand the concept. Symptoms due to biological dysfunction are "somatic" but symptoms "caused" by behavior or cognitions are just "symptoms"? This somehow seems backwards, but I can't articulate why. It seems to imply that most symptoms are driven by behavior and that "somatic" symptoms driven by biology are the exception.

In the "real" world inhabited by actual living people the idea that most symptoms are not biology is of course ludicrous. But in the minds of psychobabblers, well, I can see where they might believe this, or at least pretend to.
I suppose it would help to think about a real psychosomatic symptom. Such as stomach or chest pain due to a stressful event, or stage fight. (I was going to also mention shaking due to fear, but that would be a 'sign' rather than a 'symptom'.) The stomach pains would be originated via a psychological process but they'd also be perpetuated via a biological mechanism (i.e. increased levels of stress hormones.) So would that make the symptom psychosomatic or somatic? (I don't know.) If an illness or symptom is entirely imaginary (ie. It doesn't really exist, but a person believes it exists or says it exists), then I suppose it can't be said to be somatic.
 

duncan

Senior Member
Messages
2,240
Is the pain felt in the arm space - after that arm has been amputated - psychosomatic?

A problem, in part at least, is mind/brain dualism, and unscrupulous or dogmatic individuals who take advantage of that.
 
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