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Removing Glutamate from Brain with GOT/Oxaloacetate?

Ema

Senior Member
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4,729
Location
Midwest USA
Over the past few months that I've been struggling through Valium withdrawal, I've been curious as to why I might be having such horrible symptoms.

I've basically come to the conclusion that I think I had high GABA levels to begin with rather than low levels. It seems that high levels of GABA cause paradoxical panic and anxiety when boosted further and that has certainly been my experience. Valium made me feel overly stimulated big time and even the herbal GABA supps (and GABA itself) have made me feel worse for the most part.

When I look back at my old urinary neurotransmitter testing, I see that my GABA levels were in fact high...and so were my glutamate levels.

So I've started looking at things to lower glutamate. I've gone back on a higher dose of B12 as well but I came across this research below which is a bit old now but very interesting. It talks about using the enzyme GOT to remove excess glutamate from the brain. Now, strangely enough, this enzyme is measured on a typical CMP and since the Valium withdrawal, mine has been elevated for the first time ever. I wonder if it is trying to remove excess glutamate from my brain?

It also talks about using oxaloacetate to lower glutamate levels in the brain...wonder if anyone has ever tried this using a supplement? It's called BenaGene and it is expensive as usual. It looks like it might be possible to use NAC as well which would certainly be cheaper.

Any thoughts?

Public release date: 8-Feb-2011
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Contact: Yivsam Azgad
news@weizmann.ac.il
972-893-43856
Weizmann Institute of Science
Hope for stroke victims
2 new studies support a novel approach based on Weizmann Institute scientists' research
Much of the devastation of stroke and head trauma is due to damage caused the overproduction of a substance in the brain called glutamate. Preventing this damage has been impossible, until now, as many drugs don't cross the so-called blood-brain barrier, and those that do often don't work as intended. But a method originally devised at the Weizmann Institute of Science may, in the future, offer a way to avert such glutamate-induced harm.

Prof. Vivian I. Teichberg of the Institute's Neurobiology Department first demonstrated a possible way around these problems in 2003. Glutamate – a short-lived neurotransmitter – is normally all but absent in brain fluids. After a stroke or injury, however, the glutamate levels in brain fluid become a flood that over-excites the cells in its path and kills them. Instead of attempting to get drugs into the brain, Teichberg had the idea that one might be able to transport glutamate from the brain to the blood using the tiny "pumps," or transporters, on the capillaries that work on differences in glutamate concentration between the two sides. Decreasing glutamate levels in blood would create a stronger impetus to pump the substance out of the brain. He thought that a naturally-occurring enzyme called glutamate-oxaloacetate transaminase (GOT, for short) could "scavenge" blood glutamate, significantly lowering its levels. By 2007, Teichberg and his colleagues had provided clear evidence of the very strong brain neuroprotection that oxolacetate (a chemical similar to GOT) afforded rats exposed to a head trauma.

Two new studies – conducted by Fransisco Campos and others from the lab of Prof. Jose Castillo in theUniversity of Santiago de Compostela, Spain – now provide a definitive demonstration of Teichberg's results. In the first, the scientists conclusively showed that oxoloacetate injected into rats with stroke-like brain injuries reduces glutamate levels both in the blood and in the affected brain region, while significantly lessening both cell death and the swelling that can accompany stroke. In the second, a team of neurologists in two different hospitals checked the levels of glutamate and GOT in several hundred stroke victims who were admitted to their hospitals. They found that the most significant predictor of the prognosis – how well they would recover at three months and how much brain damage they would suffer – was the levels of these two substances. High glutamate levels correlated with a poor outcome, high GOT levels with a better one.

The overall implication of these two papers is that administering GOT might improve a patient's chances of recovering, as well as speeding up the process. In addition to stroke and head trauma, a number of diseases are characterized by an accumulation of glutamate in the brain, including Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson, multiple sclerosis, epilepsy, glaucoma, certain brain tumors and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, and there is hope that, in the future, treatments to scavenge glutamate could relieve the symptoms and improve the outcomes for a number of neurological problems. Yeda, the technology transfer arm of the Weizmann Institute, holds a patent for this method.



###
Prof. Vivian I. Teichberg's research is supported by the Nella and Leon Benoziyo Center for Neurosciences; the Carl and Micaela Einhorn-Dominic Brain Research Institute; and the Legacy Heritage Fund Program of the Israel Science Foundation. Prof. Teichberg is the incumbent of the Louis and Florence Katz-Cohen Professorial Chair of Neuropharmacology.
 
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Critterina

Senior Member
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1,238
Location
Arizona, USA
Sounds like it might be worth contacting them, since there's a patent involved. Just want to be sure that the expensive stuff on the market is the same stuff that they were using for this research, and not some ineffective knock-off.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
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4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@Ema I don't know anything about this product. but I've had an interesting experience, might be of some use to you. At some point when I was in a very intense detox mode, my body wanted a lot of oxalates. I use self-testing for my supps and food. Suddenly wanted extra carrots, tahini, anything w/ oxalates. So I added tea to my regular footbaths. I'm not drinking tea any more. I used green or rooibos, as that's what I have on hand. This went on for a few days. Since then, once in awhile, if I've had some indication of detoxxing something.

Someone on a thread in the last weeks made a connection to oxalates that sounded like it might answer my question. I can't find it now. However, I searched all sorts of terms and never found anything that told me why this was happening. It seemed to me that body wanted oxalates to bind to something it was excreting.
 

xchocoholic

Senior Member
Messages
2,947
Location
Florida
Hi @ahmo . You may want to pose your question about oxalates on the yahoo trying low oxalate forum. I can't eat high ox foods so I've never run into someone intentionally eating these. Tc. X
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,852
What are the Valium withdrawal symptoms you are experiencing, @Ema? Increased anxiety? If so, the potent and non-pharmaceutiocal anti-anxiety supplements detailed here may help. I think these anti-anxiety supplements may be lowering glutamate by reducing the brain inflammation that releases lots of glutamate.
 
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zzz0r

Senior Member
Messages
181
The only thing that I know that can lower Glutamate levels relativly to GABA is resveratrol. Also high Glutamate levels relativly to GABA is a sign of excitotoxicity.
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
Why not just use NAC?
I did mention trying NAC and would likely do that first because of the price. But I've taken NAC in the past and never really noticed anything from it which is why I wondered if anyone had tried the oxaloacetic acid as an alternative.
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
What are the Valium withdrawal symptoms you are experiencing, @Ema? Increased anxiety? If so, the potent and non-pharmaceutiocal anti-anxiety supplements detailed here may help. I think these anti-anxiety supplements may be lowering glutamate by reducing the brain inflammation that releases lots of glutamate.
Thank you, @Hip. I did find your list helpful and trialed a lot of those supps. I did find NAG helpful though (as you mention) I worry a little bit about feeding Lyme.

Now my anxiety has lessened significantly but my main problems are dizziness/OI, migraines and sensitivity to light and sound. I think a lot of that may be excessive glutamate.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,852
Your idea of using oxaloacetic acid to scavenge for glutamate in the blood, and thereby reduce brain glutamate, is a very interesting one @Ema.

I found these studies/reviews on using oxaloacetic acid to reduce brain glutamate:

Brain to blood glutamate scavenging as a novel therapeutic modality: a review
This review mentions that oxaloacetate, pyruvate, glutamate-oxaloacetate transaminase, and glutamate-pyruvate transaminase are all blood glutamate scavengers.
Scavenging of blood glutamate for enhancing brain-to-blood glutamate efflux
This study found that a mixture of 1 millimolar pyruvate and oxaloacetate decreased blood glutamate levels by 50%. (I calculate that you would need a dose of 8.5 grams of calcium pyruvate to achieve a 1 millimolar concentration in the blood, assuming 100% absorption in the gut).
Blood glutamate scavenging as a novel neuroprotective treatment for paraoxon intoxication
The effect of blood glutamate scavengers oxaloacetate and pyruvate on neurological outcome in a rat model of subarachnoid hemorrhage

This study found that in rat subarachnoid haemorrhage (a type of stroke) neurological performance was significantly improved in rats treated with oxaloacetate or pyruvate.

It is interesting that these studies say that pyruvate is also a good blood glutamate scavenger, as well as oxaloacetic acid / oxaloacetate. You can buy pyruvate as a supplement (as calcium pyruvate), and it is quite cheap.



Sources of Oxaloacetic Acid Supplement:

The cheapest I found oxaloacetic acid is here: Benagene (oxaloacetic acid 100 mg x 30) £19.71 (£20.21)

Other more expensive sources:
BenaGene at iHerb (oxaloacetic acid 100 mg x 30) £22.05
BenaGene at Amazon (oxaloacetic acid 100 mg x 30) £25.11
Bulletproof Upgraded Aging Formula (oxaloacetic acid 100 mg x 30) £30.01
Oxaloacetic Acid
powder 25 grams £142.08


Note: 3-carboxy-3-oxopropanoic acid = oxaloacetic acid
Other synonyms for oxaloacetic acid:

oxalacetic acid
oxaloacetic acid
ketosuccinic acid
2-ketosuccinic acid
alpha-ketosuccinic acid
3-carboxy-3-oxopropanoic acid
2-oxobutanedioic acid
hydroxybutenedioic acid
2-oxosuccinic acid
oxobutanedioic acid
oxaloethanoic acid
ketosuccinic acid

CAS Number: 328-42-7

Source: here.
 
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Ema

Senior Member
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4,729
Location
Midwest USA
I wonder if the heat stabilized part makes any difference or if it is just marketing? Both the original Terra BenaGene and the Bulletproof one mention this whereas the cheaper AOR form does not.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,852
I wonder if the heat stabilized part makes any difference or if it is just marketing? Both the original Terra BenaGene and the Bulletproof one mention this whereas the cheaper AOR form does not.

I think the added vitamin C is the stabilizer.

On the Bulletproof Upgraded Aging Formula page, it says that "Vitamin C is not just a filler–it’s a key ingredient. Vitamin C acts as an electron acceptor, stabilizing the oxaloacetate and preventing it from turning into pyruvate."
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
I'm not sure.

I found this (but of course they would say their own version is better!)

The company that owns the rights to a heat-stabilized version of oxaloacetate, benaGene, is also involved in clinical studies. This is why you will find almost none of the scientific research about the molecule on the company’s website. Heat stabilization, incidentally, is the breakthrough that makes it possible to store OAA for easy clinical as well as over-the-counter uses.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article47017.html
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,852
Yes I think you may right, thermally stabilized may mean something other than a vitamin C preservative. In any case, this page detailing the AOR BenaGene product does say it is thermally stabilized.



By the way, have you seen this thread, Ema: Rocephin shots

Two people on that thread said they had near complete (but temporary) remission from their ME/CFS neurological symptoms (brain fog, etc) within a day or so of having injections / IV of the antibiotic Rocephin (ceftriaxone). This made me very curious, and after a bit of research, I found out that Rocephin potently boosts gene expression of the brain's glutamate transporter EAAT2, which is the main glutamate transporter, responsible for clearing the bulk (90%) of the excess glutamate from the brain. This study found Rocephin increased glutamate transporter EAAT2 expression by 3-fold.

My theory is that these two patients got temporary remission from ME/CFS neurological symptoms due to Rocephin significantly ramping up the glutamate transporters. I am going to be trying Rocephin injections myself soon, to see if I can replicate this result.
 
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Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
Very interesting about the Rocephin. Seems like a good thing to try!

My LLMD suggested Rifampin and Levaquin for me next but both of those have cortisol issues. Rifampin might be a better option right now.

Keep me posted please!
 

invisiblejungle

Senior Member
Messages
228
Location
Chicago suburbs
Sources of Oxaloacetic Acid Supplement:

The cheapest I found oxaloacetic acid is here: Benagene (oxaloacetic acid 100 mg x 30) £19.71 (£20.21)

Other more expensive sources:
BenaGene at iHerb (oxaloacetic acid 100 mg x 30) £22.05
BenaGene at Amazon (oxaloacetic acid 100 mg x 30) £25.11
Bulletproof Upgraded Aging Formula (oxaloacetic acid 100 mg x 30) £30.01
Oxaloacetic Acid
powder 25 grams £142.08

Hi Hip,

The last source you listed is a chemical supplier. Do you have any experience ordering from these types of companies?

I always wondered how they operated (legally), since they seem to sell pharmaceuticals as well (although at exorbitant prices.)