Relationship btw B2 & B12 - Folate/Riboflavin

[Tiger Lily 813]

Hi all,

I saw the 37 page thread on Riboflavin but I could not get much substance from it.

I have developed immune system problems not long after starting mild usage of methylfolate/b12 and a b complex.

For one of my low immune problems, I was told to take Riboflavin.

I looked up Riboflavin deficiency and realized I had several of the issues mentioned.

Although I guess this isn’t a typical hurdle for most of you, has anyone needed to add B2 in after starting use of active B12?


I feel like I’ve read the Freddd protocol and gotten the impression to steer clear of it.

But these immune problems are even worse than the fatigue/brain fog where I began.

I tried researching to understand the relationship between B2 and B12 but I am not a biologist…

Much, much appreciate your help!!

 

[Tiger Lily 813]

(My situation is cfs/adrenal fatigue and lyme)

 

[girlfromeurope]

I have a b2 deficiency too now, from doing the b12 protocol.
I think it's best to supplement extra b2 , beside the b-complex.

 

[Tiger Lily 813]

Oh geez, thanks for letting me know that @girlfromeurope at least it seems like it will be easy enough to rectify in a fairly short time. I really need to get a good functional medicine doc who can look at the intricacies of my case. Hope you are feeling better soon : )

 

[girlfromeurope]

I found that when I got this deficiency, the b12 protocol didn't work so well anymore.
So I really think b2 and b12 are related. I have now ordered extra b2
I wish you the best!

 

[PeterPositive]

Keep in mind that B2 and B6 also play a role in the methylation cycle, so it's not just about B12 and folate. For example my problems with high homocysteine have started to improve by adding active forms of B6 and B2 along with the usual supplements.

If your basic B-Complex is low in those two you may want to buy some additional B2 (and/or B6), possibly in their coenzyme forms. I used Source's natural sublingual tablets for a while, now I am taking a multi-B with pretty high active B2 and B6, so I have stopped the others.

http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Coenzymated-B-2-Sublingual-60-Tablets/1036#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=coenzyme b2&rc=90&sr=null&ic=4

 

[Tiger Lily 813]

Thanks @PeterPositive I've been on this website a month and a half easy - no idea how I missed this B2 info. What is the multi that you're using now? I will def be adding B2 in separately for a minute to get a better balance.

 

[GalaxiiGrl]

From the information I've gathered, this is my understanding of Freddd's recommendation for B1, B2 and B3 (Please correct me if I'm wrong!):

Divide into 2 doses per day
B1 (Thiamin) - 30mg/day maximum
B2 (Riboflavin) – 30mg/day maximum
B3 (Niacin) - 100mg/day maximum

If you take more than this, Freddd says it can cause Paradoxical Folate Deficiency.

Also, let me just say, I can't believe I'm actually answering a question about the active B12 protocol! I've been studying it for weeks, and it's finally coming together for me.

I hope this is helpful!

 

[Tiger Lily 813]

Thank you @GalaxiiGrl
I remember reading that, but I thought that since I was taking a multi with those vitamins in it, that I would be fine. I think my body must have a greater need for Riboflavin.

 

[Lotus97]

Not only is B2/R5P (and also B6/P5P) a cofactor for processing folate, but B2 (and B3) is a cofactor in recycling glutathione and B2 is a cofactor for converting B6 into it's active form (P5P). It would be really silly to avoid taking B2. I can't imagine why Freddd is telling people not to take B2, but it makes me sad that he's doing so. Especially since many people here are deficient in B2 and have glutathione deficiency. It's also a lot cheaper to take B2 and/or R5P (the active form of B2) and less methylfolate as you get the same result.

Freddd had a bad experience with B2 causing overmethylation for him, but that's only because he was taking loads and loads of methylfolate. And according someone who I consider much more knowledgeable than myself it was very likely also because he was B2 deficient. B2/R5P isn't a methyl donor. It's not going to cause overmethylation unless you're taking too much methylfolate.

 

[PeterPositive]

Thanks @PeterPositive I've been on this website a month and a half easy - no idea how I missed this B2 info. What is the multi that you're using now? I will def be adding B2 in separately for a minute to get a better balance.

I take this product:
http://www.supersmart.com/en--Vitamins--Coenzymated-B-Formula--0540

 

[Lotus97]

From the information I've gathered, this is my understanding of Freddd's recommendation for B1, B2 and B3 (Please correct me if I'm wrong!):

Divide into 2 doses per day
B1 (Thiamin) - 30mg/day maximum
B2 (Riboflavin) – 30mg/day maximum
B3 (Niacin) - 100mg/day maximum

If you take more than this, Freddd says it can cause Paradoxical Folate Deficiency.

Those aren't bad doses (although they are going to vary from person to person and it might be better to take some in the coenzymated or active forms), but I have no idea where he gets his information about the paradoxical folate deficiency thing. That's just flat out wrong. That's the problem sometimes with these internet forums. Someone says something authoritatively and then other people just assume they're right (especially if they appear to have mastery of medical and scientific jargon) and unfortunately it gets repeated over and over.

 

[GalaxiiGrl]

Lotus, thanks so much for your response. I really appreciate the information. While it does confuse things even more, I'd rather have more information than not enough (or the wrong information). Looks like there's a lot more research for me to do, still.

 

[PeterPositive]

From the information I've gathered, this is my understanding of Freddd's recommendation for B1, B2 and B3 (Please correct me if I'm wrong!):

Divide into 2 doses per day
B1 (Thiamin) - 30mg/day maximum
B2 (Riboflavin) – 30mg/day maximum
B3 (Niacin) - 100mg/day maximum

If you take more than this, Freddd says it can cause Paradoxical Folate Deficiency.

Those aren't bad doses (although they are going to vary from person to person and it might be better to take some in the coenzymated or active forms),

Yes, those dosages look good. Taking those in the active forms, possibly via sublingual tablets would be pretty good.

I don't know about niacine dosage though. The fact that it "soaks up" methyl groups doesn't seem very controversial. Most methylation docs seem to agree on that. I guess 100mg is probably still on the safe side.

Any comments on that?

 

[girlfromeurope]

I have ordered a bottle in the non-active form. I hope it will be just as good.

 

[PeterPositive]

I have ordered a bottle in the non-active form. I hope it will be just as good.

If you will get benefit from it, you'll know it works Otherwise you can try with the active form.

 

[ahmo]

Freddd's info re amounts for B vits relates especially to these pushing up the need for potassium. He found, as have I and others, that reducing the Bs to the smaller amounts reduces the need for extra potassium. I'd formerly been taking large doses of all the B's, including P5P, R5P. When I reduced these my high potassium needs dropped immediately. I settled on Swanson's B complex, which I divide into 1/2, so turning a 25mg B Complex into approx 12 mg, taken BID. this has been working well. cheers, ahmo
https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-activated-b-complex-high-bioavailability-60-veg-caps

 

[Victronix]

Freddd's info re amounts for B vits relates especially to these pushing up the need for potassium. He found, as have I and others, that reducing the Bs to the smaller amounts reduces the need for extra potassium. I'd formerly been taking large doses of all the B's, including P5P, R5P. When I reduced these my high potassium needs dropped immediately. I settled on Swanson's B complex, which I divide into 1/2, so turning a 25mg B Complex into approx 12 mg, taken BID. this has been working well. cheers, ahmo
https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-activated-b-complex-high-bioavailability-60-veg-caps

Nice that you had that outcome. How much potassium do you take per day now, and in what form?

 

[Tiger Lily 813]

The B2 made me very tired today, that's strange because most vitamins that assist methylation do the opposite for me. To be continued... Thanks to everyone for so much info here. It helps a ton!! I know the mention of B2 on prior threads has sparked some opposing views, which is why I had a lot of mis-info.

 

[ahmo]

I'm now taking approx 750 mg BID. I tend to need more, over 1-2 doses, when increasing folate. I've recently switched from K+ gluconate to K+ chloride, as it comes out cheaper (both NOW/iherb). This works for me because I take my powdered supps by footbath. If I need extra, eg. during the night, I take K+ gluconate orally, as I prefer the taste.

Also, I found that when I decreased my B vits I lowered my sulfur load, something that's important for me. This led to a complete disappearance of a glitch I had in my shoulder, which I also experienced in the other shoulder when I decreased sulfur initially.