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Reason why women come down with CFIDS more than men?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Rowena Ilagan, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Rowena Ilagan

    Rowena Ilagan

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    Can anyone point me to articles, research, etc. on why CFIDS affects more women than it does men?
     
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  2. perovyscus

    perovyscus

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    Women produce a great deal more estradiol than men, which is directly immune enhancing.

    Further, the immune system changes during pregnancy to accommodate an embryo, so that is an extra factor men do not possess. Minor issues include self-report of symptoms and different ages of death.
     
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  3. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Senior Member

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    I think it has a lot to do with hormones because hormones directly affect the immune system. That's just a hunch. We have lots of hormones, lots of things that are going on that men don't. Having said that, there are a lot of men here on this forum.
     
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  4. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    Great question. I always wonder about this when theories about etiology are discussed. Why the male/female difference, unless this is an autoimmune disease? Any leads @Hip ?
     
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  5. rodgergrummidge

    rodgergrummidge Senior Member

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    Interesting question @Rowena Ilagan

    Several studies comparing male and female CFS patients have clearly identified many metabolic differences. These include the metabolic studies of Naviaux et al (PNAS), Fluge et al (JCI), and Niblett et al. I guess if someone could have a careful look over these papers, key differences may be identified that might explain the differing symptomology.

    upload_2017-11-9_17-6-8.png
    the above data comes from van rensburg et al in Brain Res. Bull. and might suggest that iron differences may be involved in female CFS patients.

    Naviaux et al suggested based on their metabolic findings that men, more than women, may utilize endogenous protein catabolism to provide substrates for the TCA cycle. This could be related to hormones including anabolic-type steroids being higher in men and so might make women more prone to the symptoms of CFS mitochondrial metabolic defects than men.

    Others have suggested that CFS, fibromyalgia and the chronic pain conditions, such as myofascial pain syndrome, are more severe in females who have a lower haemoglobin and haematocrit than males. So it might be related to haemoglobin.

    Maybe its just because women are just so much more fabulous than men:):p:lol:;):D;););););):)
     
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  6. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I think its less reported by men. Most men dont see drs enough so dont build a repore with their gp to report their issues. Men are stubborn its that simple.

    I will generalize here and say cfs forums have more posts by women and are more about support issue. Guys generally just concerned with understanding it and trying to fix it and not good with support issues and guys are trying to fix the unfixable. Im not say either or, only does the one thing but it appears to be their dominating feature, but generally thats what ive found on the forums and pm's ive had with many cfsers.

    I have come across some ladies that are the opposite of my generalization and go hell for leather at being fixers. Maybe personal experimental scientist is a better name then a fixer. I will go with that as not much is fixed , similar to my house.

    In no way im i saying one is better than the other but pointing out the differences in what appears to be the different numbers of males and females. And with so many cures in cfs , support is greatly needed by many as the cure option is limited.
     
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Id say us men are simpler, a feed, a pat on the tummy and put the tv in front of us
     
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  8. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    I also heard an interview with Jarred Younger where he was focussed on how leptin tracked symptoms. He mentioned that women have base levels of leptin that are much higher than men. Dr. Chia has also mentioned that men tend to recover under his protocols more often than women. Maybe there is more parity, but perhaps many men are just mild and undiagnosed...
     
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  9. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    unfortunatly many researches doesn't segregate men from women in datas, but some do and point metabolic differencies:


     
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  10. Murph

    Murph :)

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  11. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    When i was at KDM's clinic i met a lot of young men doing very well. Its only anecdotal, but young men seem to recover functioning better than middle aged women. All the middle aged women i met were not recovering much at all.

    In general autoimmune diseases affect women more than men, i always thought this was because our immune systems are different due to pregnancy.
     
  12. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member

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    It may be a myth. The well known epidemics were often in hospitals where the nurses were women so the figures were skewed; also the Royal Free was a centre that encouraged women doctors. They were also emphasised to encourage the "women are liable to mass hysteria" idea.

    It was accepted that teachers and medical staff were at risk because they encountered lots of infections, so more women. Women were more likely to be involved with childcare and children are sinks of infection.

    I know quite a few men with ME. MS is much commoner in women though.
     
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  13. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I would guess what you suggest may be correct, that ME/CFS is an autoimmune disease or has some autoimmune components, explaining the high female to male ratio.
     
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  15. MartinDH

    MartinDH Senior Member

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    What I don't understand is: If CFS is an autoimmune disease, then why don't we just take Methotrexate or something like that...
     
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  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I take it you have not seen the Fluge and Mella's rituximab clinical trials, which show great promise for treating ME/CFS. Rituximab kills the B-cells that are causing autoimmune attack. There is a whole sub-forum on rituximab.

    Fluge and Mella got involved in rituximab after they noted that an ME/CFS patient given methotrexate made a recovery. But they moved on to rituximab, as this is better.
     
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  17. MartinDH

    MartinDH Senior Member

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    Ah thank you. I just missed the fact that they used MTX before RTX! Okay that in fact sounds like inflammation is going on. But then I find it interesting why they can't find any inflammation in my blood...
     
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  18. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Do you know if they actually measured testosterone, etc., to see if it was high -- or even at normal levels -- in the male patients? I ask because mine was low when last tested -- 2-3 years ago -- and I've been losing muscle since 2010.

    Also curious if they measured 3-methylhistidine levels...?
     
  19. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    Two things I would like to point:

    -MTX (and so do many immunomodulatory drugs) is also efficient on inflammatory diseases like atopic dermatitis (not only on auto-immune diseases).
    -Having no inflammatory markers in your blood doesn't mean you don't have inflammatory disease.

    Actually a subgroup of ME/CFS patients have normal ESR and CRP (and fibrinogen), even when they have infection evidences. It may be because some protein synthesis are switched of by the disease.
     
  20. MartinDH

    MartinDH Senior Member

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    Okay I have to admit my knowledge on this is veeeery low ;-)
     

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