The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Pyruvate - Not Detected in my Organic Acid Test

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by bertiedog, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I have recently had the results of my Genova Organic Comprehensive Profile which was done on the first void of the morning. Some of the results of very worrying and show high oxidative stress, very poor detoxification with very little evidence of glutathione, urea cycle overload (ammonia toxicity), intestinal bacterial overgrowth which I already knew about, plus yeast overgrowth. There was also a marker for Clostridia overgrowth and that was high too. I have been working on changing the bacteria in my gut but only since September so obviously a huge way to go.

    The other result which was interesting was pyruvate was not detected although the fatty acid metabolism was fine. Genova say that pyruvate is a marker for carbohydrate mechanism and show evidence of ketosis. I do eat a lowish carb diet but always have a small snack at 10 pm with a bit of carb and fat to get me through the night. I guess it also explains why my blood sugar is pretty low on waking and I think this is what triggers the headaches/migraines when I do eat plus all the toxicity.

    There are some markers in the Citric Acid Cycle which are too high, mainly to do with B vits, especially B12 and folate. I already knew about those but I have been unable to take the methylated form of vitamins because they have given me daily migraines in the past. I have SNPs which mean I don't tolerate methyl groups well so I seem to be between and rock and a hard place.

    To try and tolerate at least some folate and B12 I have had to start a migraine preventative drug and I think it is helping at the moment so possibly I might be able to improve some of the markers. I seem to be tolerating around 400 - 500 mg methyfolate plus the last few days I have been ok on 2500 B12 which is a mixture of AdenB12/Methyl B12 and HydroxyB12. I have asked Dr M if she can help me sort some of this out because I think I will need some medication for the bacterial overgrowth and also anti fungal meds because herbals haven't worked for me, probably cos there is just too much going on.

    I have to say a lot of the stuff that has been highlighted isn't actually off their chart, just towards the high end so I try and console myself with that fact at least! I should say that I am 70 in a few month's time so I have had a lifetime of building up this rubbish and I am pretty positive that the SNPs I have got are a lot to do with the issues I have.

    Pam
     
  2. rodgergrummidge

    rodgergrummidge Senior Member

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    There is a lot going on there @bertiedog. Some extra detail would be helpful.

    which particular markers showed high oxidative stress

    which markers showed urea cycle overload?

    how was intestinal bacterial overgrowth determined?

    Pyruvate should normally be low. Elevated pyruvate (and lactate) can be a sign of high carbohydrate metabolism (glycolysis) and/or reduced (or defective) mitochondrial metabolism (oxidative phosphorylation).

    Which markers of the Citric acid were high? What was the clinical interpretation of the high citric acid markers?

    In terms of B-vitamins, they are critical for 100s of biochemical reactions, many of which are independent of the citric acid cycle. What marker suggested a link between the citric acid cycle and B-vitamins?

    Rodger
     
  3. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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  4. Chocolove

    Chocolove Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again

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    bertiedog likes this.
  5. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Why do you mention antifungal meds particularly?
     
  6. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    I'm sure I've read/been told chromium and B1 have some impact on pyruvate.
     
  7. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    D-Arabinitol was at the top end of the quintiles. There are 5 of them so my result was in the fifth one hence their recommendation for antifungals.

    Recently I have noticed a yellowish streak on my tongue especially at the back of my tongue which is completely lined and looks really furry and disgusting so this would be consistent with a bad yeast issue at the moment.

    I will try taking Flucananzole for a while but I have to be careful with it because it can block my steroid which then makes me feel horrible and stops me doing all the stuff I would normally be able to do. This time of year is actually quite quiet for me so its probably a good time to start.

    @Learner1 also came up with some great suggestions and I have started to use my Infrared Sauna again because its a good way of detoxifying. I am going to try and do this very regularly which hopefully will get my toxin load down.

    Pam
     
    Learner1 likes this.
  8. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    Yes both these were recommended for me in view of my results so I am going to add them in to my supplements.

    Pam
     
    Learner1 likes this.
  9. Chocolove

    Chocolove Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again

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    Are you taking corticosteroids? They knock down the immune system.
     
  10. Chocolove

    Chocolove Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again

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    @bertiedog
    Are you taking a corticosteroid? That's the steroid that knocks down your immune system so you catch infections more easily and have more trouble with infections.

    From my understanding the azole antifungal drug slows the body's processing of the corticosteroid, which then results in increasingly high levels of corticosteroid in the body.
    See: https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-...elected-azole-antifungal-agents/intrtype-drug
     
  11. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    Yes I take 6 mg Prednisolone daily and have been since 2003 as I have adrenal insufficiency and without them I would be dead so no option not to take them.. I weaned off once in 2006 and had a crisis from which I could have died if I had been on my own. Never want to go through that again.

    Pam
     
  12. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    Yes I was aware of this and that's why if I have to take a course of this I only do low dose and don't take it every day. The majority of herbs are also metabolised in the same pathway so they also cause me problems.

    Pam
     
  13. Chocolove

    Chocolove Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again

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    So sad to hear that, but I definitely understand. The corticosteroids I was on really limited what my treatment options were and my doctor actually told me they had run out of options to treat me for fungal and bacterial infections. I hope you regularly check databases like drugs.com for potential drug interactions, although with new drugs, interactions are not well known. :bouquet:
     
    bertiedog likes this.

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