Pyruvate dehydrogenase function depends on thiamine (B1)

[Sidereal]

Acta Med Scand 1985; 218: 129-31

Aggravation of Thiamine Deficiency by Magnesium Depletion
A Case Report

T. DYCKNER, B. EK, H. NYHLIN and P. 0. WESTER

From the Department of Internal Medicine, University of Umea, Umea, Sweden

ABSTRACT

A patient with Crohn’s disease and long-standing diarrhea resulting in a combined thiamine and magnesium deficiency is presented. Despite massive doses of thiamine i.v., the symptoms of thiamine deficiency could not be suppressed until the magnesium deficiency was corrected as well. This case report emphasizes the dependence of thiamine on magnesium for an adequate function in the body.

Key words: thiamine, magnesium, Crohn’s disease.

 

[Asklipia]

Sulbutiamine + Fursultiamine Day 5
Yesterday at breakfast I took one Alinamin Ex Plus (33 mg fursultiamine) + some magnesium, at lunch I took 200 mg Sulbutiamine and at dinner one Alinamin again + some B2.

I was fine all day long. Nothing to report at siesta time, but I am afraid I had a nice bottle of wine for lunch, which led to other things, and my mind was not 100% on this sulbutiamine experiment through which I offer my body to Science, on top of to anyone else.
However, there is a general result : day after day I have been feeling like electrical impulses along the outside of the legs, from the hips to the malleoli of the ankles. Little fake cramps, very light but hard to bear. This has affected my walking position. It is as though the muscles on the sides of my legs were getting more supple, affecting the position of the knees and hips. This has happened several times at all hours since I took Sulbutiamine, and never happened with Alinamin during the last year.
Considering the fact that hardness in that area is a clinical sign of beriberi and that I have suffered from this problem of hard external leg muscles all my life, I can only imagine that I have been thiamin deficient since childhood and that in my case Sulbutiamine is more effective for that problem than Fursultiamine.
Be well!!!!

 

[Chocolove]

I am afraid I had a nice bottle of wine for lunch

Is that Sulbutiamine making you a bit giddy? Reckless with your health? Whoa there Nellie! Sounds like the party animal may be on the loose.

Alcohol depletes magnesium and thiamine.

Research over the past 30 years has identified several mechanisms through which alcohol may contribute to thiamine deficiency. The most important of these mechanisms (as discussed in Hoyumpa 1980) include:

• Inadequate nutritional intake
  
  
• Decreased absorption of thiamine from the gastrointestinal tract and reduced uptake into cells
  
  
• Impaired utilization of thiamine in the cells.
  

Alcohol breaks down into acetaldehyde. Acetaldehyde is a particularly potent toxin that can damage all the tissues in the body including the brain. It is produced when you drink alcohol, breathe the exhaust from cars and smoke cigarettes.

Acetaldehyde readily combines with red blood cells, proteins, and enzymes; travels to all parts of the body; and even passes through the blood brain barrier. It damages the structure of red blood cells making them unable to squeeze through tiny capillaries to convey oxygen to needy tissues. Acetaldehyde also blocks the attachment of oxygen to red blood cells.

Acetaldehyde damages nerve cells by creating deficiency of an important nerve vitamin, B1 (thiamine); it undermines vitamin B3 (niacin), the energy and neurotransmitter vitamin; and disrupts brain function by interfering with vitamin B5.

... alcohol consumption results in thiamine deficiency by causing inadequate nutritional thiamine intake, decreased absorption of thiamine from the gastrointestinal tract, and impaired thiamine utilization in the cells. See: Wernicke’s encephalopathy; Wernicke–Korsakoff psychosis; alcoholic cerebellar degeneration

Alcohol encourages yeast overgrowth which has a whole spectrum of unhealthy symptoms.

Alcohol consumption can damage the brain through numerous mechanisms

Alcohol depletes a broad range of vitamins, amino acids, fatty acids, enzymes, proteins and minerals from your body. The kingpin to this depletion is magnesium which is the anti-stress mineral that most men and women are deficient in.

 

[Chocolove]

@eljefe19

This supplement has the following; oxide, AA chelate, gluconate, aspartate, ascorbate, citrate, succinate, fumarate, ketogltuarate

Commonly magnesium supplements that include oxide, are made predominantly of oxide, with just a dusting of the others, because oxide is the cheapest. Unfortunately the oxide form absorbs very poorly at about 4%.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@eljefe19

Commonly magnesium supplements that include oxide, are made predominantly of oxide, with just a dusting of the others, because oxide is the cheapest. Unfortunately the oxide form absorbs very poorly at about 4%.

My magnesium healing was postponed for several months since I was trying to avoid MgO supplementation. MgO was the only form of Mg supp I could ever tolerate, so I can't disdain it anymore. I think what really matters in Mg supplementation is the molecule it is bound to. Glycine is the worst for me since it is a purine. Malate is high in salicylates. Aspartate can be excitotoxic (and was for me). Citrate causes me unbearable tinnitus, and so on.

 

[Chocolove]

@Gondwanaland Have you tried ReMag? It is a pico-ionic solution.
Dr. Carolyn Dean herself had problems with magnesium forms and finally created her own, ReMag, that she can tolerate.
https://www.amazon.com/Pico-Ionic-R...?ie=UTF8&qid=1485364946&sr=8-1&keywords=remag

https://blog.rnareset.com/2014/07/20/invisible-minerals-remag/

Dr. Carolyn Dean, MD ND, is a leading expert in Magnesium with over 30 books & 110 kindles on the life-changing benefits of magnesium, including the extremely popular, The Magnesium Miracle (Revised and Updated Edition)

.

 

[Sidereal]

Calmag (ionic solution of calcium and magnesium) is the only form I can tolerate. The other forms are toxic to me especially glycinate, malate and citrate.

 

[carer51]

I ordered some high dose thiamine earlier for James to add to his cocktail, might as well. Can't remember why, read something, guess it was to do with that pyruvate article. And magnesium as that wasn't currently in his regimen.

 

[Chocolove]

Here is an interesting account of thiamine repletion by IV:
http://www.adnuther.com/2012/02/intravenous-thiamine/

 

[Gondwanaland]

Have you tried ReMag?

Adding to my wish list, thanks for the heads up

 

[picante]

Dr. Carolyn Dean herself had problems with magnesium forms and finally created her own, ReMag, that she can tolerate.
https://www.amazon.com/Pico-Ionic-R...?ie=UTF8&qid=1485364946&sr=8-1&keywords=remag

This is what I've been using:
https://www.amazon.com/Good-State-Liquid-Magnesium-Concentrate/dp/B00CWEHXH0/ref=sr_1_12_s_it
Basically the same thing, only more concentrated. It would take 30 drops to get 150 mg, just for comparison.

And I also have these bath crystals, which I put into a little spray bottle with water. The Mg chloride dissolves no matter how strong I make it! Then I spray on my calves before bed and rub it in:
https://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Minerals-Magnesium-Bath-Flakes/dp/B005F1ATJQ/ref=sr_1_2_s_it

 

[picante]

@Sidereal Since it may take months to replete a magnesium deficiency, it is lucky you got any effect from thiamine. Plus magnesium is required to replete a calcium deficiency. The need for magnesium repletion to get body functions going is going to make start up difficult. Magnesium is required for 300 enzymatic reactions in the body. People are being recommended to take magnesium for several months before attempting other nutrients to see a result.

There is a problem with that last bit, though:

For magnesium to get into cells it requires thiamine (vitamin B1).

That's in an article by Sarah Myhill.

I don't take B1 and Mg at the same time because the information on the acu-cell site indicates that they are antagonists. But both seem to be needed for ME, and I got into big trouble on the methylation protocol 2 years ago without realizing I was having symptoms of thiamine deficiency. (I was taking thiamine -- how could I have a deficiency? That was, I learned, some pretty lame logic.)

 

[Chocolove]

I don't take B1 and Mg at the same time because the information on the acu-cell site indicates that they are antagonists.

"Magnesium Synergists:
Chromium, zinc, boron, CoQ10, Vitamin B2,
Vitamin B6, insoluble fiber, [calcium,* Vitamin D*].

Magnesium Antagonists / Inhibitors:
Sodium, potassium, iron, selenium, copper, lithium,
silicon / silica, manganese, Vitamin A, Vitamin B1,
Vitamin C, Vitamin E, niacin / niacinamide, PABA,
Vitamin K, folate, choline, uric acid, alcohol, w6 (e.g.
primrose, pumpkin seed oil), [calcium,* Vitamin D*].

* Most of the above are dose-dependent. They are co-factors at normal levels, and antagonists at higher levels."

Very interesting. Vitamin B1 was not starred. I wish they had a source reference.
Since the B vitamins may wash out of the system within 4-5 hours, I guess taking magnesium after that period and/or at night would be best.

Patients with magnesium deficiency are at risk of thiamine deficiency because magnesium is a cofactor in transketolase reactions and in the conversion of thiamine to TPP.
http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/100610p78.shtml

 

[Asklipia]

My husband joined me in bed later and found that my skin was covered in very high goose pimples. He said that if I had been a bird with feathers I would have doubled in size!

I am happy to find here that these are a sign of youth! and mental health .

In an effort to develop a prognostic sign useful to psychiatric practice, the gooseflesh response to electric convulsive treatment was observed in 43 hospitalized mental patients. The magnitude of the gooseflesh response was inversely related to the age of subjects and was greater in men than in women. Patients with affective illnesses evidenced a positive relationship between the magnitude of their gooseflesh responses and favourable outcomes of treatment.

Sorry I just discovered how to put colour in my posts...
Be well.

 

[Chocolove]

I am happy to find here that these are a sign of youth! and mental health .

In an effort to develop a prognostic sign useful to psychiatric practice, the gooseflesh response to electric convulsive treatment was observed in 43 hospitalized mental patients. The magnitude of the gooseflesh response was inversely related to the age of subjects and was greater in men than in women. Patients with affective illnesses evidenced a positive relationship between the magnitude of their gooseflesh responses and favourable outcomes of treatment.

@Asklipia In the study you link, the gooseflesh response to electric convulsive treatment was observed in 43 hospitalized mental patients. .... I rather wonder if a cow doesn't get goose bumps when subjected to an electrical jolt from a cattle prod. But the causes and meanings of gooseflesh can be many, with positive or negative implications.

"Goosebumps are also common when one is cold, as per Wikipedia - "As a response to cold: in animals covered with fur or hair, the erect hairs trap air to create a layer of insulation. Goose bumps can also be a response to anger or fear: the erect hairs make the animal appear larger, in order to intimidate enemies.

Goose bumps are created when tiny muscles at the base of each hair, known as arrector pili muscles, contract and pull the hair erect. The reflex is started by the sympathetic nervous system, which is responsible for many fight-or-flight responses. The reflex of producing goose bumps is known as arasing, piloerection, or the pilomotor reflex."

However....

"Piloerection is also a classic symptom of some diseases, such as temporal lobe epilepsy, some brain tumors, and autonomic hyperreflexia. Goose bumps can also be caused by withdrawal from opiates such as heroin. A skin condition that mimics goose bumps in appearance is keratosis pilaris."
.................
It seems clear that something stimulated your gooseflesh response, but what is uncertain. Thus it seems the implications are unknown, maybe good or bad. Good luck following the trail of clues.

Goose bumps, goose pimples or goose flesh are the bumps on a person's skin at the base of body hairs which may involuntarily develop when a person is cold or experiences strong emotions such as fear, euphoria or sexual arousal.[1]"

 

[Asklipia]

euphoria or sexual arousal.

That must be it!!!!
So happy to feel plaques diminishing, decreasing phosphorylation of tau and reversal of memory deficits.
Vitamin B1 (thiamine) and Dementia

 

[Chocolove]

@Asklipia Thanks for bringing that up that free research paper, it has a lot of valuable information. Have you also taken benfotiamine?
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/nyas.13031/full
Vitamin B1 (thiamine) and dementia
First published: 11 March 2016

With regard to benfotiamine,

As a result, it doesn't readily cross cell membranes and the BBB as does the allithiamine family. It is just another form of thiamine with no special advantages.

@alicec I think you may find the above research article of considerable interest. As a result of findings regarding benfotiamine, it is currently being used in a clinical trial with Alzheimer's Disease patients that will conclude in 2019. https://www.nia.nih.gov/alzheimers/clinical-trials/benfotiamine-alzheimers-disease

Here are some pertinent excerpts to illustrate:

"Brain thiamine is well known to be resistant to short-term manipulation of peripheral thiamine. Thus, both benfotiamine and furusultiamine had only minimal effects on brain thiamine and no effects on TPP or TMP.

However, benfotiamine was much more effective than fursultiamine in raising blood thiamine—blood thiamine was increased two to three times more by benfotiamine than by fursultiamine (0.1 to 15 as compared to 0.1 to 7), as well as after 10 days (0.1 to 6 as compared to 0.1 to 12)."....

"Benfotiamine has been shown to dramatically reduce plaques in the brain.[34] In this study, a comparison with the effects of furusultiamine, which does not alter plaques, suggested to the authors that the effects of benfotiamine were independent of thiamine and likely occur through benfotiamine's action on GSK."

 

[Asklipia]

@Asklipia Have you also taken benfotiamine?

No I have not.
For the moment I am quite happy with my little experiment (Alinamin + sulbutiamine + Allithiamine); substituting Alinamin instead of Sulbutiamine for two days after three days of Sulbutiamine. I certainly feel it working on memory, in a strange way : I have insights into events that happened years ago. I do not remember them as I did up to now, when I was playing the leading role and considered what happened around me.
Now I remember scenes of my past as though I was an outsider. I understand what was going on and escaped my attention at the time. Amazing how close I was to danger! Incredible that so many people resented me! How innocent and stupid I was! It is as though I was very near to being able to live the scene from the point of view of the other participants.
All this understanding of the past has all kinds of consequences with a lot of ramifications. It takes a lot of time to think it over and I am quite lazy at the moment, watching the light and the birds.
These clarifications of my past are bringing a new freedom.
Knowledge is power!!

 

[Sidereal]

I've never taken benfotiamine because the pro-allithiamine propaganda out there gave me the impression that benfotiamine was totally ineffective for brain issues and was useful only for peripheral neuropathy (which I used to have until allithiamine got rid of it). The GSK3 and plaque paper is intriguing. I'm going to give benfo a try and report back.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Benfo caused me unbearable hypoglycemia at tiny doses (10-30mg)