The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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'Purge on disabled a Nazi piece of work' says The Scottish Sun Newspaper

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Wildcat, May 8, 2012.

  1. Wildcat


    'Purge on disabled a Nazi piece of work' says The Scottish Sun Newspaper:
    By ANDREW NICOLL, Scottish Political Editor

    'A DOCTOR yesterday likened the UK Governments welfare reform crackdown on disabled people to the barbarism of the NAZIS.

    Dr Stephen Carty told MSPs [MP Members of the Scottish Parliament] they must fight back against Westminsters introduction of tough new tests to see if people are fit to work.'


    The Full Article from the Scottish Sun:

    A DOCTOR yesterday likened the UK Governments welfare reform crackdown on disabled people to the barbarism of the NAZIS.'

    Dr Stephen Carty told MSPs they must fight back against Westminsters introduction of tough new tests to see if people are fit to work.

    He said the policy could push hospital services to the brink of collapse, and warned the Scottish Government not to use the Nuremberg Defence where Nazi war criminals said they were only obeying orders. Dr Carty said: Now is the time to mobilise a campaign of resistance.

    The Edinburgh GP is part of the Black Triangle Campaign, named after the badges the Nazis forced disabled people to wear in World War Two death camps. The changes have seen over a third of Scots Incapacity Benefit claimants passed as OK to work.

    In Clackmannanshire more than half of those on the sick 51 per cent were classed as fit.
    Holyroods Welfare Reform Committee is due to deliver a report on the impact of the changes before Parliament rises next month.
    taniaaust1 and Merry like this.
  2. Wildcat


    32 die a week after failing test for new incapacity benefit - from The UK paper The Mirror, 2nd April 2012:

    Daily Mirror Article :

    32 die a week after failing test for new incapacity benefit

    By Nick Sommerlad on April 4, 2012 11:00 PM in Health

    More than a thousand sickness benefit claimants died last year after being told to get a job, we can reveal.

    We've highlighted worries about the controversial medical tests for people claiming Employment Support Allowance which are being used to slash the country's welfare bill.

    The Government has boasted that more than half of new claimants are found "fit to work" - failing to mention that over 300,000 have appealed the decision and almost 40% have won.

    Instead, employment minister Chris Grayling (below) says this "emphasises what a complete waste of human lives the current system has been".


    Here's another waste of human life.

    We've used the Freedom of Information Act to discover that, between January and August last year, 1,100 claimants died after they were put in the "work-related activity group".

    This group - which accounted for 21% of all claimants at the last count - get a lower rate of benefit for one year and are expected to go out and find work.

    This compares to 5,300 deaths of people who were put in the "support group" - which accounts for 22% of claimants - for the most unwell, who get the full, no-strings benefit of up to 99.85 a week.

    We don't know how many people died after being found "fit to work", the third group, as that information was "not available".

    But we have also found that 1,600 people died before their assessment had been completed.

    This should take 13 weeks, while the claimant gets a reduced payment of up to 67.50 a week, but delays have led to claims the system is in "meltdown".

    Mr Grayling admitted last month that 35,000 people are waiting longer than 13 weeks. Commenting on the deaths of claimants, a Department for Work and Pensions official said: "It is possible that the claimant had already closed their claim and then subsequently died, meaning that these figures may be overestimating the true picture."

    Of course, they're bound to include some people who died of something completely unrelated to their benefit claim.

    But there are plenty of tragic cases - such as that of David Groves (above) who died from a heart attack the night before taking his work capability assessment.

    The 56-year-old, from Staveley, Derbyshire, worked for 40 years as a miner and telecoms engineer but stopped on doctors' orders after an earlier heart attack and a string of strokes. His widow Sandra said: "When Dave was called in for a medical, he felt like he was back to square one.

    "He was in a terrible state by the day he died. It was the stress that killed him, I'm sure."

    Stephen Hill, 53, of Duckmanton, Derbyshire, died of a heart attack in December, one month after being told he was "fit to work", even though he was waiting for major heart surgery.

    Citizens Advice told us it has found "a number of cases" of people dying soon after being found fit for work.

    "There seems to be a clear link between the cause of death and the condition they were suffering from that led to the claim," said Katie Lane, head of welfare policy.

    "We have always supported the idea that people who could work and want to work should be helped to do that. But we are seeing a lot of seriously ill and disabled people being found fit for work.

    "We have serious concerns about whether the test used to decide if people are fit for work is the right test."

    The work capability assessments are carried out by private firm Atos, on a 100million a year contract.

    The firm made a 42million profit in 2010 and paid boss Keith Wilman 800,000, a 22% pay rise on the previous year.

    The response to our FOI request:

    Thank you for your Freedom of Information request of 16 February 2012. You asked:

    Can you please provide me with the number of ESA claimants who have died in 2011?

    Can you please break down that number into the following categories:

    Those who are in the assessent phase

    Those who have been found fit to work

    Those who have been placed in the work related activity group

    Those who have been placed in the support group

    Those who have an appeal pending

    The table below provides data on the numbers of Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) claimants where the Department holds information on a date of death being recorded in 2011 and whose latest Work Capability Assessment (WCA) date (or activity towards assessment) was before the end of August 2011, the latest data available.

    In total, between January 2011 and August 2011, some 8,000 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end. This represents about 1% of the total ESA caseload in May 2011 (the latest caseload data available). The table below shows the position of these claims when they were closed.

    Those in the Support Group receive unconditional support due to the nature of their illness, which can include degenerative conditions, terminal illness and severe disability.

    Note it is possible that the claimant had already closed their claim and then subsequently died, meaning that these figures may overestimate the true picture. Care should therefore be taken when interpreting these figures.

    WCA Outcome at most recent assessment and number of claimants with a recorded date of death
    Assessment not complete 1,600

    Work Related Activity Group 1,100
    Support Group 5,300
    Total 8,000

    All figures have been rounded to the nearest 100.

    Data on the number of ESA claimants that have died following a fit for work decision is not available, as the Department does not hold information on a death if the person has already left benefit.

    The Department does not hold information on the number of claimants who died whilst an appeal was in progress.

    We then asked for:

    The total Employment and Support Allowance caseload figures most comparable with the ones in the FOI request, eg Jan-Aug 2011, showing how many ESA claimants are put in support group, WRAG group, fit to work or claim ended.

    Clarification on whether these figures are only new ESA claims or whether they include the transfer from Incapacity Benefit?

    Clarification on the six-week cut off figure - why was that selected?

    We were told:
    As at August 2011 there were around 730,000 people receiving ESA. In the three quarters Jan-Sep 2011, 380,000 people left ESA. It is not possible to provide the further detail you request.

    These figures only cover new ESA claims - claims from IB recipients are not included.

    The six-week figure is used routinely within the department when looking at where people go after leaving benefits.

    However, there are more figures on the outcome of Work Capability Assessments on the DWP website here and here.


    This is a very remarkable and Excellent piece of reporting and investigation by the UK Tabloid Newspaper The Mirror!

  3. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

    Wow, terrible. Governments are feeling the financial hit and they decide they better stop giving benefits to a big percentage :(
    Wildcat likes this.
  4. Wildcat


    Hi, SickofSickness, Its even worse than that in Britian!

    What has been going on in Britain is systematic and deliberate government policy scapegoating of Sick and Disabled citizens!

    There has been a deliberate and concerted hate campaign against British Sick and Disabled Citizens by UK Government Ministers and National Media (Including the BBC) for several years now. The media reports repeatedly assert that "75%" of Sick and Disabled people are Scroungers who are fit to work; in defiance of the true figures - with repeated and disgraceful media hype, VERY dirty black propaganda about people claiming to be sick and disabled when they are not (except they ARE too sick/disabled to work).

    The figures on Sickness Benefits so-called 'Fraud' quoted in the Press have been repeatedly fiddled by Government sources (especially by David Freud, who has now been made a Member of the House of Lords and Minister for the Department of Work and Pensions) in the most disgraceful and thoroughly mendacious ways.

    The official reports state that 40% of sickness/disability benefit (ESA) claimants who have been classed as 'fit for work' by the rotten assessment company ATOS, win their Appeals and are officially declared Unfit for Work Long Term.

    BUT, with proper representation at their Appeals , IN FACT, 70% of people who appeal against the ATOS decision that they are fit for work, prove that they are NOT fit for work and win their Appeals.

    In addition, it is the case that a certain number of ESA (sickness/Disability benefits for being to sick/disabled to work) claimants suffer from short term treatable conditions and injuries, so, by the time their full ESA assessment comes up, they have recovered and are again fit for work. The Government Ministers and media claim that those people dropped out of the ESA assessment because they were not really sick or disabled!!!! What a disgraceful manipulation of facts and figures by our UK government and media!!!
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  5. Wildcat


    A Tale of two Models: 'Disabled People vs Unum, Atos, Government and Disability Charities' : by Debbie Jolly

    One of the main advocates of the bio-psychosocial model, Lord Freud (Westminsters Minister for welfare reform) claims that it is based on evidence. It is not.

    It is a right wing model led by profit and the market. It incorporates the worst aspects of neo-liberalism. It targets disabled people and ridiculously claims that we can think ourselves out of being disabled. Its underlying theme repeats the mantra that work will set you free.

    But this is not about work, despite the endless rhetoric; this model is an ideological cover for attacking disabled people and reducing every single right to financial support that has been achieved.

    Additional fringe benefits are provided to the insurance market of Unum, to the profits of Atos and to the big Disability Charities who all capitalise on the new notions of risk being imposed on disabled people.

    We can identify a clear pattern for the construction of the bio-psychosocial model, and its advocates. It features:

    ?Academics in the pay of the insurance company Unum

    ?The genesis of the Work Capability Assessment guided by Unum and Atos,

    ?Atos imposition of mass reassessments

    ? Successive governments

    ?Key players in the Department of Work and Pensions

    ? The big Disability Charities.

    This long article/essay continues on this link:
  6. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Even the Sun is better in Scotland.
    ukxmrv, Valentijn, Mark and 1 other person like this.
  7. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland

    FINALLY one man of honour speaks up from a profession mired in atrocious evil, corruption and ignorance!
    Well done sir! :thumbsup:
    But those who have gone along with the evil done ot us and others, can rot in Hell.

    That scumbag Murdoch admitted he had to let the Scottish editions of his papers do things differently, because we won't have truck with his stinking, selfish, xenophobic, filthy ways (see Levenson Inquiry).
    Pog ma hone, Murdoch, yer a wicked disgrace to the land of your ancestors! :D
    ukxmrv and Wildcat like this.
  8. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

    northern Maine
    wildcat, thanks for the articles. It's past time for a Black Triangle Campaign in the U.S. The situation here is grim. I've been fighting for Social Security Disability for over four years. I've been waiting more than a year for a hearing in front of the Administrative Law Judge.

    We really do have something close to a "One World Government" - but it's not the United Nations, it's the transnational corporations who have effectively seized control of governments. The corporations mentioned above are also sticking it to working people in the U.S.

    I'm sure you are all familiar with Fox News, owned by that Murdoch scumbag. They never miss a chance to trash talk the same working people who are their viewers. It's more of the divide and conquer strategy. My own mother would rather turn in her next door neighbor for allegedly receiving 'undeserved' benefits than work with her neighbors to bring down the criminal conspiracy that is wrecking our lives. How can one fight such ignorance? There must be some way; people smarter (and younger) than me will have to figure it out.

    UNUM is also a well-known name in the U.S. They will do anything to avoid paying disability claims. They are also making it more difficult for people like me to get a hearing date for Social Security Disability. The connection? They force people to file multiple Social Security claims, thus plugging up the system, in order to keep receiving their UNUM benefits.
    Wildcat likes this.
  9. *GG*

    *GG* senior member

    Concord, NH
    Have the austerity measures been enacted yet?

    I think if people make comments, they should support going against the people gaming the system. The finanances/debts of countries seems unsustainable, but the sick and disabled should be taken care of.

  10. Carrigon

    Carrigon Senior Member

    PA, USA
    The big picture is the governments of the world have been creating a replica of 1930's Germany, and so many people can't even see it. They are fostering hatred against the disabled and gay people. If you look at today's news on how they just banned gay marriages in yet another state. They have been trying really hard to incite race wars and racial hatred, like with the Treyvon Martin case. All the while stealing everyone's rights every single day. They are training more TSA to be put into place all over the US. And the FEMA camps are being readied for more protesters. Anyone who objects to the New World Order will be placed in FEMA. And they are already training the staff to "re-educate" the protesters. These are not conspiracy theories, these are FACTS of the world we now live in.

    I pray they don't try to force us to go back to work here in the US because I wouldn't make it. I can rarely ever leave my apartment. I can't even sit in my living room for long because I get lightheaded and have to go lay down. And I'm in a real downswing healthwise. I'm in alot of pain, and the fatigue has been so bad that I have to sleep half the day. If they ever tried to force me to work, I would end up one of the permanently bedridden or dead. So if it ever came to that, I think suicide would be my only option.

    It's barbaric what they are doing to people. If a doctor says you cannot work, that should be the end of it. There should never be further discussion.
    Wildcat likes this.
  11. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Thing is, there is NO austerity, it's merely that the rich are evading paying tax by enormous amounts.
    And, no one was held to account for the bankers nearly destroying Western civilization
    we were seconds away from total economic collapse, because it's all run by computers, the morons use them for hyper fast calculations and transactions, but computers do not understand the true value of things, only equations...what is "food" to a computer?
    So they literally had to pull the plug on the damn markets because the computers were driving it all into the ground, trillions gone, in seconds.

    More folk have died, millions in fact (see food prices causing famines) than Al-Qeda could ever manage.
    But terrorists are easy distractions and good money makers for the media: carnage and gore and stupid waste.
    The slow quiet unseen deaths, ruination, public building works cancelled, pensions ruined etc for MILLIONS of people, means nothing.

    Osama Bin laden was rightfully hunted down for killing thousands.
    Bankers kill millions, and are given bail outs and bonuses.
    Our societies though have been so warped, so spoon fed on even offering our children to the Baal-Mammon of greed and suicidal desruction of our own world, that most folk cannot see this.

    Seventy odd years ago, the US and UK, executed German and Japanese war criminals for waterboarding, and other tortures the US government explicitly approved and used recently, duh?!
    There is no excuse for such abuses, as experts have often said, it is far less use than than any other method anyway, never mind all the other issues with it.
    How the HELL has the USA fo all nations come to such a low state that it's leaders mealy mouthed their way into public aquiescence of such crimes which will inevitably be used one day against its own citizens, because once a thing has been accepted, it will be used again...
    USA's system was designed to specifically prevent such terrible crimes, but they got round it, the US media are (largely) useless scum merely propagandists for the corporations, not "The Fourth Estate", and the public sleep largley sleep walked it's way into perdition.

    And the UK has come, after starting up the NHS and Welfare System from the horrible lessons learned from World War2, into becoming a nation who's leaders/professional classes/systems are rampantly racist, only care about the "City", sell their arses to the corporations with glee, and pushed propaganda to attack and excuse the abuse of the disabled?

    Go see how many MPs after leaving office go to work for firms they signed lucrative contracts for. *CORRUPTION*!
    But it's "ok, they did valuable service and should be allowed to profit by it!" is the party line.
    (US has much better laws against such, by the way)

    See also the fact the USA, by defualt, is a police state (most citizens in world in jail per capita and in total, and pray tell why small town police ddepartments need frekaing SWAT teams armed with assault rifles?!), and now the corporations are going cock-a-hoop to get contracts to use the inmates as workers, workers who have little rights, paid crap....that's a concentration camp system ripe for terrible abuse, think about it.
    Criminals = slaves with little rights.
    Make citizens criminals = more slaves.
    See how Walmart etc made huge profits from the Chinese victims of TianamanSquare protest being thrown into concentration cmaps years ago (where'd ya think those cheap goods came from?)

    ah well, seems lessons are only learned the hard way, large chunk of the population have got slothful, greedy, stupid, and abandoned principle for perosnal profit.
    Thus, we have scum like the Weasels able to subdugate abuse and eliminate folk like us.
  12. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

    northern Maine
    Respectfully, I am not at all sure about that. If a stranger mugs you, takes a hundred dollars from you, then drops a dollar bill while walking away laughing, should you pick it up, or tell the mugger he dropped something?

    The bankers and their wholly-owned political hacks have been relentlessly mugging working people in the U.S. for over 40 years. I'm not going to condemn someone who finds a way to take back some of the loot. If they break into my neighbor's house and steals what little he has, that's a different kettle of fish.

    By the way, yesterday Bloomberg ran an article that Congress is considering a bill to cut TWO MILLION people off food stamps, and cut benefits to many more, so that the War Department can buy more bombs. And of course all these scumbags call themselves "Christians". I wonder if they will fit through the proverbially "eye of the needle"...
    Valentijn likes this.
  13. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    As Ghandi so wisely said
    "I like your Jesus, I do not like your Christians!"

    (ok it wasn't Ghandi, per se but let's not get picky :p)

    Alas, a great many people use their religion as an "I'm special!" badge, and are really small or mean spirited sacks of crap :/
    THIS is the true spirit of Christianity:

    Jesus' 11th commandment:
    "Do unto others as you would be done by yourself"
    "Love thy neighbour as thy brother"

    When I hear scumbags like the "prosperity evangelicals" I could puke!
    Jesus whipped such curs for the same crimes from the temple, so they are in direct opposition to Christian teaching and deed, prostituting faith for lucre, gah!

    and hey I am well aware that much of the Bible was edited, changed, altered etc, and NOT written by "God": it's about faith, not facts. Remember I love history as well as science ;)
    Bible doesn't teach you how to build a PC, or alloy steel! It's about spiritual enlightenment, not slavery to tyranny, zealotry and ignorance.
    Alas, too many people just want their "security blanket that makes me special", and that breeds division, igorance and strife :(
    Faith is something you work on, struggle with, explore, not use as a bludgeon!

    One huge problem is that the words of the person we know as Jesus, were obviously spoken as parable, complex teachings to encourage enlightenment, NOT rote bloody abusive rules for tyrants' iron fists.
    They have multiple meanings and are to inspire, alas folk take them too literally/simply or just ignore them. I'm definately NOT a fan of Paul.
    Go see stuff like the gospel of St THomas that was left out of the Bible as was much else for political reasons, see Council of Nicea

    I've met truly blessed people from all walks and religions,and a HELL of a lot more scumbags 'cause being a selfish scumbag is easy.
    Very damn hard to be "decent" never mind achieve a state of grace.
    Each must find their *own* path, for it is theirs and theirs alone to walk.
    Jesus, Mohammed, Moses, Buddha, or the life of a moral, compassionate atheist, whatever.
    I've more respect for a moral atheist who does things through no fear of god/religion but only because he hopes/believes in doing good deeds for their own sake, that person is a hell of a lot more in grace than most twats in positions MEN gave themselves in God's name will ever be.

    yeha yeah I know I'm a big one for logic and science, so this may seem paradoxical or even hypocritical :p
    I've jsut seen way too much...weird stuff, and know it wasn't simple illusion/mistake etc.
    And faith is a vital need for everyone, doesn't have to be about "supernatural", but faith in something like justice, compassion, fair play, trying ot make the world better,hope in the human spirit, a set of moral principles, etc
    Without that, folk are lost in darkness.

    And Adam Smith warned what happened when folk took the pursit of wealth too far,but the greedy ratbags always forget or deliberatley overlook he wrote TWO major many folk know what his FIRST one was, hm?
    For those who do not know, it is The Theory of Moral Sentiment, and Smith believed it was a more important work than his Wealth of Nations

    Sorry for derial, but the rise of extremist religion CHRISTIAN as well as Moslem AND others has been an affront and cause of much death and harm in last century or so
    Alas, the small minded vermin are rebelling against the light of factual truth, exposing their corruption and evil, and showing this universe is not some simple thing that "we special uber beings won/control", ha!!! what idiocy!
    but a thing we have to view with great care and thought and respect.
    The iron in our blood came from stars that went nova billions of years ago, THAT to me is an amazing thing, that speaks to me of a faith in "creator" that spent time, and logic and effort to craft a living universe for us to learn and become better people in.
    That is awesome :) And if I'm wrong and there is no creator...sad, but hey. I CAN be wrong. It's about belief, not facts.

    My perosnal motto "I'd rather be a fool who believes in dragons, than a king who believes in nothing" has meaning.
    And no, it is not an insult or such against atheists in case any think that, again, many atheists out there I believe will wake up in an wonderful afterlife they richly deserve :) If I'm wrong heck well neither of us will exist to laugh at the other's foibles :p
    My motto is about revelling in the wonder aorund us and the importance of faith/hope, and about the horror of those who no longer believe in anything, not mercy, not compassion, not the wonder around them.
    They have become cold and dead inside, they may decry themselves "pragmatists" "Realists", but all they are, is a Human black hole that can never be satisfied and devours all :/

    Arguing over WHAT, or IF such a creator exists is only worth a good gab over a pint or cuppa, it's of personal relevance only, not worth denying other possibilities or harming others over.
    We are arrogant beyond belief if we think WE control a Being(s) that uses supernova to build it's Lego village with :p
    Or that such MUST exist, to the death even, without proof?

    And what do we do? Kill each other with that same iron that came from stars, sigh.

    sorry for derail :)
  14. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Hi Carrigon, this problem is not universal. While Australia does have its issues, including conducting CBT/GET research here, we are not following this path. Two days ago the new Federal budget gave the first funding to a National Disability Insurance Scheme which will provide funds to the disabled that they can take from doctor to doctor, or service to service, using the doctors and services of their choice. This is well received in Australia, but it will take most of a decade before it becomes fully operational - and hopefully I will be cured/treated before then.

    We are also slowly legalizing gay marriage and trying to end the discrimination.

    So these problems are not everywhere. They do not have to occur.

    I have been following the ATOS story for a long time now. There is a dedicated (and new) site here:

    Bye, Alex

  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Hi SilverbladeTE, I have been saying something similar in various blogs, including posts to British sites. The UK government cries foul when dictators kill a few people, but when their actions cause the deaths of hundreds, and potentially thousands; when they induce fear and even terror in millions of vulnerable citizens; when they distort the facts severely to support their views; and when they consider 32 deaths a week as acceptable losses - thats as bad as most dictatorhips. Welcome to Britain, the new Syria! When I read "Nazi piece of work" a few days ago it struck a chord. It would make a fantastic slogan.

    Bye, Alex
    ukxmrv likes this.
  16. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    *nods, sadly in agreement*
    the fact that our systems designed to help the afflicted, have been perverted to abuse them, just as the Soviets did against their dissidents, is an appallingly vile, loathsome evil.
    Kids and adults carted off to asylums to be tortured/posioned into "admitting their illness isn't real" in our case.
    The courts not only backing this, but enforcing absolute secrecy and cover up!

    Government in bed with insurance corps who killed thousands of Americans (wish I'd kept the link of a page where a judge in the US wished he could have sent the UNUM scum to trial for murder, one of the best things I've read),
    paying the head of ATOS 800,000 a year to murder the disabled by the backdoor, because they don't have the guts to build gas chambers
    The scum media like Murdoch's "braying after the disabled like devils chasing after the soul of a saint" (great expression my grandpa used to use about mobs/riots and political withc hunts etc, lol)
    and folk wonder why I get ANGRY??! Jeesh, what, am I, stone? :p
    Thing is you and I grasp this kind of thing, most people out there, don't.

    Some folk go on about "Stalin killed more than Hitler", without understanding it.
    Stalin, like many others through history (see Boxer Rebellion and few others), didn't have that insane lust for extermination the Nazis did, Stalin was a cold ruthless paranoid monster (and also a murdering gangster in his ealry days) and used famine as a tool.
    He arranged for orchestrated famines to destory the resistance of folk who didn't support him/wanted independance/more democracy etc.
    So, folk out there who think 20 million died in, 20million starved to death, in an incredibly fertile "breadbasket"!
    Such crimes are slow, cold and horrible, and much harder to notice, arranged to seem like "natural events" and scapegoats take the fall if need be.
    The manipulations of governments and corporations kill vastly more than all the raving nutcases like terrorsts ever do.
    55000 Americans died form one drug company knowingly missellign drugs/hiding safety records etc, and none of those execs gets done for murder, no Seal Team Six for them!

    As I've said,alas, but out scumbags today, can read history books and the works of Sun Tzu and Machiavelli, to get "tips" on how to achieve their diabolical goals :(

    Turning a stable, caring democracy, into fear/hate ridden ratholes is the work of truly evil people.
    Evil isn't "sexy, smart etc" as soem twerps think, it's mundane, cowardly small, and more like a loathsome "Chinese Whisper" campaign.

    "What does it profit a man, to gain the world, and lose his soul?"
    "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon"

    in more prosaic terms, folk who come to lust after wealth, get consumed with such, while religious preachers of old said such in prose and spiritual terms, we know it's actual also real psychology. See various studies on the way the wealthy view themselves as being "above" societal constraints and acceptable norms/morals, and how in groups, folk gestalt to, well, moral/intellectual average of "sludge worms", lol.

    "Disabled cost money, make no profit, so get rid of them!"
    Who were the first people the Nazis systematically murdered on industrial scale? the disabled, not the Jews.
    Why? Bunch of reasons but part is the driving force behind the Nazis was the elite/inustrialists/proto-corporates...another was to get leverage over the citizens who'd support one evil, for further evils/control.
    (and not saying the Jews didn't get the worst of it, no! point is the "lessons" the Nazis learned on how ot dispose of the disabled en masse', they then applied to their murder factories, and whom apart from political enemies, got the "chop" first was the disabled)

    Again as I've said, when a society thinks it's ok to eliminate one group, it then psychologically makes itself a thrall, because it went along with such, and the ones in charge have them by the balls, so to speak
    Those who support such evil acts cannot admit they have done wrong, to admit such is beyond most of the cowards, thus, they must continue to support the regime or, be shown themselves to have done terrible wrong, which they will not allow

    So, anyway, in a very sweeping "generalization", the North of the UK is sick fed up of the South (east) being such selfish, rotten, inhuman scumbags who keep supporting these kind of bastards. (sorry folks no offence meant to the huge numbers of decent folks, but hey...)
    It's not ugly nationalism (which is always a menace anywhere), we're just sick of such crap and those who'd support it.
    (and yes I know many folk don't and sure dont' deserve what's coming, but alas, far to many DO or the Tories etc wouldn't have been elected...and scum like Clegg sold out his own party, and Labour, pfft! My folks knew Keir Hardy and helped support the Labour party way at the beginning, they'd be spinning in their graves at that shower of cess-eating spew-stains who call themselves "New Labour"!)
    See how the same media scum attack Scots as they do disabled, yes Rob Liddle and co! Why oh why? it's cause we won't go along with their filthy evil crap, that's why! We sitll give a damn, we haven't sold our souls and boy they do not like it! :p

    thing is, this crap is just the start
    Nazis did nor set out to murder 12 million folk in the camps, it just spiralled, as such things do, those kind of things are terrible cancers that eat away at the conscience, mentality and limits of people.
    Disabled abuse today...elimination of all non-profitmakers tomorrow...or who knows what. Leaders can lose control of such "runaway trains", seegenocides and pogroms across the world and history.

    Maggie Thatcher and her family went into selling tobacco to developing nations...knowing full well the cost.
    What kind of Human Being can do that?
    Hence, expected death toll form tobacco of 1 billion by end of this century.
    Uk needed change back then, sure, but that was the start of a decent into evil, sociopathy, asset stripping and snobbery disguising itself as conservatism
    (Edward Heath *cared*, that was the difference between him and Maggie)

    Sigh, rather play games/read books, depresses hell out of me :(
  17. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

    northern Maine
    This is good news; I'll take any I can find.

    Meanwhile the State of Maine has already kicked 14,000 people off Medicaid just this year, and is working a plan to kick another 24,000 to the curb in a few months. Medicaid is health insurance for the poor. One has to be really poor to qualify, plus there are quotas for 'non-categoricals'. In other words, poverty is not enough. One also must have children, prove disability, or qualify for another special category. The rules and categories are so complex no one understands them, therefore one can not tell if the rules have been followed or not, and it is easy to get away with arbitrary decisions.

    Twice a month my case manager's secretary has to call the State and verify that each and every client is still covered by Medicaid. This takes hours of time, both for the secretary and a state worker on the other end. None of that expense benefits a single client. Many clients are receiving arbitrary termination letters. When challenged, most of these decisions are reversed. If the client isn't able to challenge the termination, or doesn't understand what's happening, tough luck.

    I sure wish I were well enough to go to Augusta (state capital) and raise hell, like I used to do before I got sick.

    Silverblade, I liked your posts. I'm impressed with how many people on this forum understand what is going on. It helps me believe that people really will fight back. It gives me a reason to keep struggling, even if I can do little more than cheer from the sidelines.
    Valentijn likes this.
  18. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    ta mate :)
    I relaly didn't like having to post that bit about SE England but, alas it's true :/
    Too many folk up here blame "England", no, historically we Scots have done/caused nearly all the nasty crap we've suffered, to ourselves.
    And many folk in SE England have been crapped on mightily by the Tory scumbags, see how the ordinary folk of London got shafted by jerrymandering, house prices forcing them to leave, use of illegal immigrants to destory wages/ability of people ot earn a living etc.

    And again, the scum at the top both used the illegal immigrants to drive down wages for maximum profit, AND also used their media "attack dogs" to vilify and blame those same immigrants to distract folk from who the hell was causing it all: the elites!
    Same in USA with mexican issue. Some of my Americna family have had their livelyhoods destroyed because they cannot compete with illegals wages/misuse and other stuff. They'd had family construction business for decades, working themselves as masons etc.
    Same crap happened in both US and UK over 100 years ago with the irish and Chinese/Lascars.
    The immigrants got blamed for eveyrthing, folk were too busy fighitng each other to realize who the enemy actually was, and it left terrible hatreds that have taken decades to die down (see Sectarianism in Scotland)

    And such cause long term health problems, epigenetics...toxic waste dumping/exposure (because the poor do not "count", etc)
    THink I've said before, my area is riddled with radium and radioactive phosporous from old factories (had to get the IAEA to help clean some of it up), heavy metals (spent 100 million cleaning up one ex-steelwork site to build a new town on top of it, but not one penny to help/clean the town the steelworks polluted though), and one munition dump they were buiding on had 100 tons of 12inch battleship shells, and 40+ tons of other stuff that could have blown the town to hell (pal of mine accidentally uncovered it, when the box he and another guy were kicking turned out to be a land mine, they were lucky as heck it didn't go off, stuff was live but fortunately not fused)
    and so on and so forth.
    So at 5'11" I'm tall for this area, until just recently the average height of most men was about 5'4" due to 150+ years of privation.
    meanwhile, the local dukes lived in a literal freakin palace! which fell into their own mines eventually lol, so greedy they undermined entire region and even got their own palace.
    crazy, sigh.
  19. Jarod

    Jarod Senior Member

    planet earth
    Comparing these actions to the Nazi's is lame.

    Probably the opinion of the author exclusively, and not necessarily the Scottish people.
  20. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    No, it's not lame, and it is how many of us think.
    Again, see how that evil, and many others, started before
    This is a deliberate cull of the disabled via the back door.
    The are no jobs!! We've got over 3 million unemplyed healthy folk as is.
    This is all bullshit, ATOS is costing more than paying the disabled welfare (especially because of the appeals proving their assessment is wrong, criminal in fact it's about "quotas", if that doesn't tell you somehting, nothing will.

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