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[Politics] Bill Durodié (Wessely co-author, Spiked, LM, etc)

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Esther12, Jul 9, 2012.

  1. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    I've just been reading a few bits and pieces of his, and some of his ideas seem related to aspects of the way in which some think CFS should be managed. Durodi/P20/

    This piece happened to mention chronic fatigue, so I thought that I'd post it up here.

    My comments on it: Personally, I really value the West's willingness to engage in self-criticism and examination, seeing it as one of our greatest strengths, and engines for growth and progress... Bill thinks that the popularity of Michael Moore's books should have piqued the interest of security agencies. Bill doesn't seem to see his opposition to aspects of the West's culture as indicating the he hates the West or progress... but instead only sees that in those who disagree with him about what aspects of western culture should be challenged. His ideas will be advantageous to those already in positions of power and authority, and so he will be rather successful (or is that a rather nihilistic view of western power structure's interest in the truth? If there is a diminishing sense of pride in the project of western society, I'd like to suggest that this may have something to do with the willingness of those in position of power to promote pragmatically constructed narratives in order to manage people, rather than commit seriously to the sort of self-criticism required by an honest pursuit of truth).
    Merry likes this.
  2. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

    South Australia
    It's bizarre how he has just thrown CF in there...
    Merry and Enid like this.
  3. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Self Loathing
    well yes for some
    Self realization is more like it, though ;)

    "What have the Romans ever done for us?"
    A lot, but at an apalling cost.
    Same for british Empire and the American EMpire (which it pretended didn't exist)
    So, we can see the crap, and should grow out of that, and also we've achieved a lot that needs preserved and improved on.

    But there's a huge flaw in the ointment and it's at the top, really.

    "Those who can, do!
    Those who can't, become leaders"
    As I often say, in various ways ;)

    thus we have the most appallingly STUPID, lying, hypocritical bunch of jack ass leaders, and that leads and their derialing of Democracy, leads to cynicism...and most cynics including the ones woth bombs, are really frustrated romantics (romantic in the broad sense)

    Those twisted nutbars who espouse the typical "Spiked/osciopathic Libertatian" attitudes are something else though.
    They want "Deutschland Uber Alles", power without conscience, progress without thought and that always collapses.
    And they're ratbags :p

    (Note, "Libertarian" encompasses a HUGE umbrella of folk and their belief, some benign to others malign, so "Libertarians" dont' take offence, unless yer a sociopath :p)

    Fear, disassociation form an increasingly "non-Human" world etc all build up to create more folk with problems, soem of whom vote, some of whom bomb. (I mean we have evolved ot be hunter gatherers in stable tribal units with real purpose in life, not the frenetic hurdygurdy of Urban life)
    Morefolk on all sides delve into increaisngly mad religious extremism on *all* sides, to escape the harsh glare of reality Science shines...and the mad world we make.

    once upon a time, people rallied against the anitImperial movement/sentiment in the UK just like that speech above.
    Same in ancient Rome, wish I could recall some of the suitable quotes in response ot such attitudes/ideas, sure old Cicero had a few ;)
    We are jaded, harried, hag-ridden by usurper princes, dragged into wars on lies for which no one pays but the victims, so what do you expect?
    We need revolution, change, fresh air and honesty (even if that is often painful it is a better tonic than lies) and that is what the scum adamantly do not want: they will prolong this ghaslty affair to the bitter end and have thus neutered Democracy.

    and why doe she brng ME/CFS in?
    self justification
    if ME/CFS is madness and bombers are madness it's all justified and he is right!
    strawman as it were
    and they have ot keep pushing their broad agendas, one of which is ME/CFS cover up
  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    I'd read a few of his pieces, and ideologically, they kept reminding me of things I disliked about the biopsychosocial approach to CFS, so wasn't that surprised when I saw him mention chronic fatigue.

    There do seem to be certain researchers who take a very different view to myself as to the value of human life, and see their views as somehow being more scientific than that of those they disagree with. It's a view of life and society which is favourable to those with power and authority, and they don't seem too concerned about this or how their work can be used to harm those in positions of weakness.
  5. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

    Define oneself by some self determined illness identity like chronic fatigue (who is he referring to precisely) - well I have a fatigue as a result of having ME mistakenly referred to as chronic fatigue syndrome. And indeed the illness is neither self determind nor my IDENTITY. Still trying to fit his mumbo jumbo into anything going that looks likely if he can get away it.
    Merry, Snow Leopard and Allyson like this.
  6. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

    South Australia
    Agreed, it shows you that he is completely ignorant of the sociology associated with "Chronic Fatigue". (and indeed he is part of the problem).
    Enid likes this.
  7. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    I just ended up reading this paper which is critical of some of Bill's ideas. They also mention that he seems to have misrepresented something from Wessely, or else that manuscript Wessely provided missed out the claim which had been cited:

    Epistemic paternalism in public health
    K Grill, S O Hansson

    Receiving information about threats to one’s health can contribute to anxiety and depression. In
    contemporary medical ethics there is considerable consensus that patient autonomy, or the patient’s right
    to know, in most cases outweighs these negative effects of information. Worry about the detrimental effects
    of information has, however, been voiced in relation to public health more generally. In particular,
    information about uncertain threats to public health, from—for example, chemicals—are said to entail
    social costs that have not been given due consideration. This criticism implies a consequentialist argument
    for withholding such information from the public in their own best interest. In evaluating the argument for
    this kind of epistemic paternalism, the consequences of making information available must be compared to
    the consequences of withholding it. Consequences that should be considered include epistemic effects,
    psychological effects, effects on private decisions, and effects on political decisions. After giving due
    consideration to the possible uses of uncertain information and rebutting the claims that uncertainties imply
    small risks and that they are especially prone to entail misunderstandings and anxiety, it is concluded that
    there is a strong case against withholding of information about uncertain threats to public health.

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