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phosphatidyl-choline or serine raise acetylcholine?

SwanRonson

Senior Member
Messages
300
Location
Alabama
If that's correct, then the phosphorylated serine isn't being an adaptogen. It's just lowering cortisol each time, with different manifestations of symptom improvement depending on what else is going on in the body.

I've always felt closer to "normal" at night. But I can tell that "normal" is sort of a fake one. I can still feel the problems in the background, like light sensitivity. That one doesn't go away.

Today was interesting because the Seriphos I took at breakfast didn't give me any energy like it has in the past days. I drug myself through the day today, even though I slept 6 hours last night, which is good for me. I skipped the lunch time dose of Seriphos and I'm going to take it at bed time tonight and see what happens (fingers crossed that it doesn't have the opposite effect). I'm shooting for 8 solid hours of sleep. That hasn't happened in probably a year or more.

Wish me luck.
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
I have light sensitivity as well and feel more normal at night. When cars drive by at night their headlights leave a light trail. I don't think the light sensitivity will go away until cortisol is stabilized, since it throws off so many other systems.

Maybe try slowly titrating your dose up?
 

SwanRonson

Senior Member
Messages
300
Location
Alabama
I skipped the lunch time dose of Seriphos and I'm going to take it at bed time tonight and see what happens (fingers crossed that it doesn't have the opposite effect)

Very odd night of sleep. About 30 minutes after I took 1/2 of a Seriphos at 10:30pm I started to feel what I thought was an energy rush coming on, but then I fell asleep about 11:00pm. I usually wake up at 3am, but I woke up at 1am, last night. I ate some watermelon and went back to sleep about 30 minutes later. I then woke up at 4am, used the bathroom and fell back to sleep about an hour later. Then woke up for good a little after 6am.

I also take 500mg of Ornithine at bed time as well each night to help with ammonia removal.

I plan to experiment more this weekend when work doesn't get in the way as much.
 

SwanRonson

Senior Member
Messages
300
Location
Alabama
Just to follow up on this, my sleep kept getting weirder and weirder with the Seriphos (and perhaps the other supplements I'm taking), so I decided a washout period was in order. I'm just going back to Vitamin C,D + Magnesium until the end of the week, then I'll try some Seriphos again. I also bought some Lactium to try as well.

The Seriphos is powerful stuff it seems. Especially at the full 1000mg dose. I see people like @Mary who took multiple pills per day (as many as 8 or more). That much might well kill me. ;-)

If I take too big of a dose at the wrong time, I get the opposite result (adrenaline rush). Presumably because it drops cortisol so low that adrenals kick in to cover. So, dosage and timing seem to be the big tricks with it.
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
Are you taking it before meals? Meals tend to spike cortisol, so that gives you a bit of a cushion.

I've taken up to 8 caps before bed before. It doesn't affect me as much.

Right now I'm cruising on 1 cap before breakfast and 1 before lunch. Sometimes 1 before bed.
 

SwanRonson

Senior Member
Messages
300
Location
Alabama
Are you taking it before meals?

When I took it at night I was just taking it straight up as I climbed into bed, about 3 hours after eating.

Right now I'm cruising on 1 cap before breakfast and 1 before lunch. Sometimes 1 before bed.

Are you still fighting persistently high cortisol throughout the day?

I think it's time for another saliva test to see what's happening when I wake up during the night. I need to know what I'm fighting here. My doctor just prescribed hydrocortisone (5mg @ breakfast, 5mg @ lunch), so it's probably a good time to do a repeat saliva test anyway. This time I'll do a night time one was well.
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,334
Location
Southern California
Very odd night of sleep. About 30 minutes after I took 1/2 of a Seriphos at 10:30pm I started to feel what I thought was an energy rush coming on, but then I fell asleep about 11:00pm. I usually wake up at 3am, but I woke up at 1am, last night. I ate some watermelon and went back to sleep about 30 minutes later. I then woke up at 4am, used the bathroom and fell back to sleep about an hour later. Then woke up for good a little after 6am.

Based on my experience, I'm not surprised you had that odd night of sleep. Seriphos did the exact same thing to me when I took it at night.
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
I wonder if it's lowering cortisol too much. Too little cortisol can impact sleep as well. I've been sleeping lately but I wake up allot, but I go back to sleep pretty fast. It takes at least 9 hours to make me feel like I'm not dead.

When I get up, I really don't feel like it, but after getting up and moving, I actually start waking up. I never get that well rested feeling though, but now I also don't have that horrible high cortisol feeling either.
 

SDSue

Southeast
Messages
1,066
Reviving this thread.

@SwanRonson I wonder how you are doing now, with the Seriphos or if you dropped it?

@Mary @adreno @heapsreal @drob31 I’d love your input, too, if you’re up to it.

I just got back my salivary cortisol results, and I would say they fit with my experience - wired and anxious til evening. I‘ve ordered some Seriphos, but sure would love to have some idea of other’s experiences before I attempt to lower my daytime cortisol. (Note: I’ve been on Cytomel for about 3 years and can’t seem to find a dose that’s stable. I’ve read conflicting reports about the need to lower/raise T3 when taking Seriphos. )

My graph is attached. Suggestions? Warnings? Happy thoughts? Cures?

Because my sleep schedule is bizarre, I don’t normally get up til around noon. Is there any value in shifting my data points to the left, or shifting the “normal” curve to the right, to get a better idea of what’s going on? It’s no wonder evening is my best time - it’s when my cortisol isn’t screaming at me.
 

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Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,334
Location
Southern California
@SDSue - Your cortisol curve is way different than mine was. I was first tested about 12 years ago. At that time, my cortisol was pretty high in the middle of the night, which caused severe insomnia and the Seriphos was a godsend. I did learn the hard way that it was best to take it in the morning, even though my high cortisol was at night. When I took it at night, it caused insomnia.

Because your results are so different, I don't know the best thing for you, but would suggest you start with a low dose, one or two and see how you do, and I would suggest taking it in the morning. I read that was the best time due to circadian rhythms. However you do seem to be a special case (no offense! :whistle:) But maybe it will help normalize your levels and how they rise and fall - hopefully .... I just don't know.

Through trying it, I learned that I needed to take 8 capsules a day initially (in divided doses in the morning on an empty stomach) - that's a high dose and I don't recommend anyone starting with that. I worked up to it and found that's what I needed. I now take 2 a day as a maintenance dose.

Good luck - I really hope it helps you --
 

SDSue

Southeast
Messages
1,066
Thanks so much, @Mary. I really appreciate the feedback as I embark on yet another experiment. Do you recall any bad side effects as you worked up to your ideal dose? thx!

Special? Why thank you! :cool:
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,334
Location
Southern California
Thanks so much, @Mary. I really appreciate the feedback as I embark on yet another experiment. Do you recall any bad side effects as you worked up to your ideal dose? thx!

Special? Why thank you! :cool:

The amazing thing was there were no bad side effects, when I took it in the morning. What I noticed almost immediately was that I was calmer, felt better able to deal with stress. The only bad side effect was when I took it at night, and it caused insomnia, just a very weird feeling at night. But in the morning, piece of cake! :)
 

SDSue

Southeast
Messages
1,066
The amazing thing was there were no bad side effects, when I took it in the morning. What I noticed almost immediately was that I was calmer, felt better able to deal with stress. The only bad side effect was when I took it at night, and it caused insomnia, just a very weird feeling at night. But in the morning, piece of cake! :)
Did someone say “calmer” and “better able to deal with stress”? Sigh me up. My body acts like the doorbell is an imminent death threat. Thanks, Mary!
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,334
Location
Southern California
Did someone say “calmer” and “better able to deal with stress”? Sigh me up. My body acts like the doorbell is an imminent death threat. Thanks, Mary!

Those doorbells! :sluggish:

I just thought of something else. Several years ago my sister took Cortislim. It was supposed to help with weight loss by helping to manage stress. And one of the key ingredients was magnolia bark. It did make her calmer - she had definite stress issues. Cortislim does not seem to be that readily available any more, I don't know why, but you also might look into Relora (sold under many different brands) which has magnolia bark and another ingredient. Just something to keep in mind --

Keep us posted how you do with the Seriphos --
 

SDSue

Southeast
Messages
1,066
Thanks, @Mary. I’ll (try to remember to) keep you posted on how I do with Seriphos. Also, I looked up magnolia bark - it has a wide range of activity, which could be good. I’ll stick it on my “to do” list. :nerd:
 

SwanRonson

Senior Member
Messages
300
Location
Alabama
@SDSue Sorry for the late reply. Not sure I can help much with Seriphos. I experimented with it for a time and always had confusing results. Sometimes it seemed to help and other times it did nothing. That was during a period when I was very sick though, so it could just be that there was so much else going on that Seriphos was just background noise. I do still have a big bottle so I'd like to give it another shot soon. If I do I will let you know. I very much still have cortisol crash issues right around mid-morning.
 

SDSue

Southeast
Messages
1,066
@SDSue Sorry for the late reply. Not sure I can help much with Seriphos. I experimented with it for a time and always had confusing results. Sometimes it seemed to help and other times it did nothing. That was during a period when I was very sick though, so it could just be that there was so much else going on that Seriphos was just background noise. I do still have a big bottle so I'd like to give it another shot soon. If I do I will let you know. I very much still have cortisol crash issues right around mid-morning.
Background noise. What a great description - sure makes it tough to know what’s working. Thanks for your reply. I look forward to hearing your experience if you try it again!
 
Messages
33
Background noise. What a great description - sure makes it tough to know what’s working. Thanks for your reply. I look forward to hearing your experience if you try it again!
Seriphos has changed its formulation. I believe it now contains ps with some other stuff. Do any of you know if phosphatidyl CHOLINE has an effect on cortisol?