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Petition to silence Esther Rantzen

Discussion in 'Action Alerts and Advocacy' started by Jenny, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

  2. Min

    Min Guest

    signed it! silly cow, it's the third time she's claimed her daughter has been 'cured' by different means

    she also stated to the press that 80% of M.E. patients recover - I believe the figure is actually 5-10%

    you'd think the patron of Action for Young ME would be circumspect enough not to repeatedly promote outrageously expensive, questionable commercial 'cures' to the media but she does it every chance she gets - wonder how much she's being paid.
  3. dipic

    dipic Senior Member

    Sorry for what might be perceived as pessimism and being quite blunt, but an online petiton isn't going to do jack. I don't know why anyone might think it would.

    And as much as I would love to hear, or rather not hear her speak of the stupid Lightning Process ever again, she really has every right to...
  4. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

    I think you're right dipic - and knowing what she's like she'll probably be outraged that anyone should try to silence her and do even more to promote the LP.

    So the petition could be counterproductive.

  5. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

    A better approach would be to conduct and publish a survey of the LP outcomes.
  6. Katie

    Katie Guest

    I'd sign a petition for that. Scientific and peer reviewed study.
  7. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

    The Lightening Process, would that make me lose weight??? hehe
  8. Quilp

    Quilp Senior Member

    This is an astonishing. I remember when she used to 'marginalise' those with M.E along with that other paragon of intellectual might, Richard Littlejohn ( yes that really is his name ) during the 1980's. Her daughter then became ill, wheelchair bound, and Esther Rantzen does a U-turn of such alacrity that some such as myself didn't know whether to love or loathe her ( please don't worry, i have in my own mind, settled that matter )
    She used her position as a talk show host to talk about the illness, carried out interviews, wrote in newspaper columns. The only think missing was a change of name and a road to Damascus.
    Some twelve years later she announces to the world that the Lightning Process has cured her daughter. As Richard Littlejohn used to say, 'you couldn't make it up'

    Kind regards, Mark
  9. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    I could not agree more concentrate on the science control groups p value and dont people get away with the word research without asking them to expand--was it scientific etc------ and concentrate on objective measureables and not the diagnostic label which is meaningless
  10. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    The lightening process is based on a theory of sympathetic hyperactivation this would happen if the hpa system was elevated. Unfortunately for them all the scientific evidence states that the hpa axis is depressed so that the parasympathetic system is king.also there is no scientific evidence that it works

    Someone ask the Rantzen woman to explain this-----does she not know about remission in ME
  11. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

    Not sure what you mean Gerwyn. What research is there that shows the parasympathetic system is king? (Assume you mean overactive.) Most of the literature I've read on this suggests that our parasympathetic systems are underactive within a disregulated HPA axis- and tests show that in me.
  12. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    I'm in East Sussex, and recently read that I could get the NHS to pay for Lightening Therapy here. Anyone know if this is true/ done it?

    If there was a practitioner really near me, I'd give it a go. It sounds like a rather nasty con, but I'd still give it a go. Some NLP and hypnosis stuff is interesting - I'd be curious to see what the sessions were like.

    edit: Anyone else read the Health Minister talking about LT at the last ME Parliamentary meeting? "This is something I know quite a lot about." *sigh*
  13. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    The literature persistently shows a hypoactive hpa axis in ME This shifts the autonomic nervous system towards the parasympathetic end---the converse appears to be true in FM at least in some studies.Sorry about the shorthand .I can find the references if you like It might take a day or so!
  14. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    Hi Jenny I,ve done some digging and the dysfunction in the HPA axis is not hypoactivity per se but a diissociation of the hypothalamus and the adrenal cortex and pituatary so the sympathetic system is virually non functional but so is the parasympathetic control so neither systems are switched on appropiately when they shpuld be---You were right the parasympathetic system is apparently underactive but at the core is this dissociation in the axis Iin any event the central assumptions of the Lightning process are plain wrong
  15. As I understand it, the Lightning Process addresses thoughts that create stress.
    Dr Judy M suggests that XMRV may be activated by stress hormones.
    So, I can see how it might work for some people.
    I'm glad it seems to have brought relief for a lot of them. A friend of mine with 10+ years ME tried it and said it helped a little bit.

    BUT to suggest that the Lightning Process is a cure for 80% of ME sufferers is going WAY beyond. Especially seeing as there are blatant vested interests with it.

    Rachel xx
  16. Advocate

    Advocate Senior Member

    Lightning Process unsuccessful experience

    It's not hard to find people who had a bad experience with this scheme. Here, for example, a mother writes

  17. Bob

    Bob Senior Member

    England (south coast)
    Please don't get me started about the Lightning Process!!!
    oh no, i've started... too late...

    Esther12, the Lightning Process is definitely not provided by the NHS in East Sussex, although there is a symptom management course provided by the NHS in East Sussex which you can get referred to by your GP.
    I've been on the NHS course and they are very friendly people who run it.
    We're lucky to get anything on the NHS for ME so they aren't going to pay for us to go on an unproven lightning process course.
    (please let me know if you discover otherwise)

    The lightning process costs about 600 for a course, here in the UK.
    The people who provide it have an enormous beautiful house in the middle of Sussex...
    I can't believe that these people charge so much to people living in poverty on benefits and own an enormous mansion with vast beautiful gardens.

    For your 600 you get about 6 one hour sessions, and there are about 10 people on each course.
    If you do the maths... you can work out how they manage to own such a big mansion and why so many people promote the lightning process with such excitement...
    Allow me to do the maths for you...
    10 people paying 100 each per one hour session (gives them 1000 per session)... fit 4 sessions in per day with 4 different groups (4000 per day)...
    4000 per day is 28000 per week, is 121,333 per month, is 1,455,999 (one and a half million pounds) a year for each individual 'trainer'.
    For those of you in the USA, i think that's about 900,000 dollars, or a million dollars per year, per trainer.

    I do know people who have been helped significantly by the Lightning Process, so we must all be careful not to dismiss their experiences, and to invalidate their personal journeys.
    But it does anger me when the Lightning Process is advertised as a cure when there has been zero independent research on it.
    Locally, some people have had a positive experience, some no change, and some a negative experience.
    There definitely isn't any evidence within my local support group to show that there's an 80% success rate, and even if there was, the patients are self-selecting anyway...
    only those feeling motivated, energised and well enough (and rich enough), would be able to attend the courses anyway, so this automatically excludes many who are severely or moderately ill.

    The Lightning Process is based on NLP and teaches you to 'stop' your negative thoughts, and to replace them with words like 'i want to feel better, and i move forwards with energy'... something like that anyway...
    it's as simple as that... it's a very simple course, but you just have to keep repeating the mantra.

    My own personal theory about the successes is that maybe some of us get stuck in a deep rut after years of severe illness and a fear of doing any small activity that might harm us...
    I know for myself, I am very fearful of over-stretching myself because of the hideous consequences of a relapse.
    So maybe some people get physically better without actually knowing it or realising because they are stuck with fear in a place of inactivity. Some people might still believe that they are severely ill because of a fear to put their bodies to the test and a fear to stretch their self-imposed limits.
    And maybe the lightning process might help these people discover that they had actually already physically recovered, without knowing it.
    That's just my own thoughts about why it might be successful for some people, and I'm happy for anyone to challenge it, or to disagree.
    I realise that this might be invalidating people's personal experiences, but I hope that people can understand my point of view without taking offense.
    Until there is independent research carried out, I will find it difficult to understand how the Lightning Process can cure ME.

    Also, 'positive thinking' might help people cope with any illness to a certain extent, but the whole concept of 'positive thinking' is something that i've always felt uneasy about.
    Personally, it's not a concept that I've ever bought into, because I think it distorts reality, but I don't completely discount it.
    I do believe that developing positive emotions is very helpful in many respects for a better quality of life, and maybe positive thinking helps some people with this.
  18. IamME

    IamME Too sick for an identity

    must be marvellous for Addisons disease then. Oh wait... it only seems to "work" for controversial "stress" illnesses, funny that.

    Sorry it's cobblers. The fact that none of the converted will hear of others' experiences as being progressive through exertion is suspicious, as is the fact not ME specialist of any worth recommends this drivel.


    NLP = Neuro Linguistic Programming = Yet More Quackery


    ME doesn't usually come after a long process and there's little evidence of increased stress hormones (which are supposed to be unsustainable over a very long period anyway) in the CFS patients studied FWIW, quite the opposite.

    Even if the HPA axis was simply "stuck in a rut" and could be thought out of, there is too much that's unique and serious going on elsehwere in the body to all be simply due to stress/adrenalin. How is it supposed to explain low NK/T cell cytotoxicity? As with official psychobabble theories, any viral infection simply becomes yet another "effect" or merely a trigger fora supposed "mal-adaptation".

    NB Gupta in an interview describes his illness as "burnout", how he "self-taught" himself neurology and how emotions can cause physical illness etc...

    Also see:

    Note the salespitch lingo in many of those comments eg "I feel like a new woman!" etc.

    These people are as much dangerous parasites as the CBT/GET frauds.
  19. IamME

    IamME Too sick for an identity

    I used to think that but don't any more. Some people believe eg. children can make a full recovery, despite official figures that "recovery" is less than 10% or something. Genetic and other research is starting to show predictive biological differences in patients who go on to recover and those who don't, so I'm not convinced it's the same illness (and the much overlooked possibility of remission confuses things further). In order to have the same symptoms when deconditioned or depressed as when having the "active illness", well, that would call inti question the active illness itself, but that isn't the case.

    I think if positive thinking helps, people have little reason to be negative in the first place; in other words, it's the gift you give people who are too stupid to realise what they've already got. There are more important practical needs, which aren't being met for many sufferers, especially the severely affected.
  20. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    The theoretical base is a hyperstimulated sympathetic system that is not true---its a mixture of CBT abdNLP

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