Severe ME Day of Understanding and Remembrance: Aug. 8, 2017
Determined to paper the Internet with articles about ME, Jody Smith brings some additional focus to Severe Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Day of Understanding and Remembrance on Aug. 8, 2017 ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

panicky and having suicidal thoughts after 2 months of unsuccessfully addressing methyl trapping

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by fprefect, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. fprefect

    fprefect Ford Prefect

    Messages:
    117
    Likes:
    61
    moving my breakfast increased the oxalate circulation (increased tinnitus, increased pain at base of skull, decreased mental clarity, etc). i think it decreased magnesium as i am seeing more fasciculations again. i will try adding magnesium oil.

    also, i am trying to get new cotton clothes to keep the allodynia manageable.

    i don't have enough mental clarity to reply.

    i will try again tomorrow.

    Ford
     
  2. fprefect

    fprefect Ford Prefect

    Messages:
    117
    Likes:
    61
    i am too low on mental clarity to reply properly.

    i am still titrating the magnesium oil. after i increased it yesterday, it is unclear whether i am increasing or decreasing oxalate circulation. i think i am seeing more tinnitus and more pain in my gums, but less of a headache (suspected anemia) and less allodynia. i am confused. i think those symptoms usually increase and decrease together as oxalate circulation changes.

    i will try again tomorrow.

    Ford

    ps. i tried replying "yesterday", but gave up due to low mental clarity.
     
  3. fprefect

    fprefect Ford Prefect

    Messages:
    117
    Likes:
    61
    i tested the 4mcg astaxanthin about 4 days ago. i think it increased oxalate dumping without increasing oxalate production. the decreased mental clarity meant i couldn't reply here.

    it might have caused pain in my lower back / hip, but that might have been due to sitting for 2 hours without support.

    i might test 0.4mcg astaxanthin after i am more sure it didn't cause oxalate production and probably after i get a replacement mattress topper to avoid back/hip pain.

    hopefully, i can respond to this thread "daily" again. my days are near 48 hours long. o_O

    Ford
     
  4. fprefect

    fprefect Ford Prefect

    Messages:
    117
    Likes:
    61
    my mental clarity has been worse. my days are more than 48 hours long. I have been too out of it to reply.

    I have been losing weight due to having 3 meals every 48 hours. I got pain in my tailbone due to weight loss.

    I have been eating the same amount to try and keep my oxalate intake the same. this doesn't make sense since I am having these meals further apart.

    I don't think I can keep this up. I got lower back pain due to weaker muscles.

    i dont know what added food to eat since everything has oxalate or produces oxalate. veges, nuts, rice and bread have oxalate. fruit and protein can produce oxalate. that is all the food groups! o_O

    is there anything I can eat with no oxalate? or minimal oxalate production?

    @Gondwanaland, any ideas? I hope you are feeling better after the antibiotics.

    Ford
     
  5. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,840
    Likes:
    3,862
    Perhaps you went too low with oxalate intake? I always feel worse when I remove a source of oxalate from my diet. I use the list posted at the oxalate thread as a guide. I am worried about you because you are going too low in nutrients.

    I used to have a drilling pain in the tailbone as well until a couple of years ago, never could find exactly the culprit, and now it is gone.
     
    fprefect likes this.
  6. JES

    JES Senior Member

    Messages:
    665
    Likes:
    1,216
    I know nothing about oxalates, but I'm pretty sure restricting your meals to 3 every 48 hours is not helping you to get better. Even Yasko writes here that eliminating all oxalates from food is not the way to go forward.

    Astaxanthin is a strong antioxidant, I don't see why it would increase oxalate dumping. I think you are frankly too focused on this oxalate issue, there are hundreds of other factors at play in CFS/ME that can make us feel better or worse, not all reactions you get from a supplement are due to oxalates.
     
    fprefect likes this.
  7. JES

    JES Senior Member

    Messages:
    665
    Likes:
    1,216
    At least part of your symptoms may arise from the long list of medications and supplements you are taking. Terbinafine, for example, has many dangerous side effects reported on wiki page, has caused deaths and doesn't seem safe to take long-term, especially not for someone with CFS/ME. Also supplements like St. John's wort have several drug interactions, St. John's wort and antidepressants like Amitriptyline for example should never be taken together.
     
    fprefect and Gondwanaland like this.
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,840
    Likes:
    3,862
    Ford, it just occurred to me to advise you the following (not that I believe it will make a huge difference for you, but for me it does):

    If you are taking anything that comes in a gel cap, do not swallow the gel cap! Chew it, swallow the content and then spit it out. Minimal amounts of gelatin readily convert into oxalate endogenously in oxalate-intolerant people like us.
     
    fprefect likes this.
  9. fprefect

    fprefect Ford Prefect

    Messages:
    117
    Likes:
    61
    @Gondwanaland and @JES, oops. I forgot to visit this thread on sep 6 since I wasn't thinking clearly. so I just saw the messages from sep 6 onwards!

    I will keep this short since I am not thinking clearly enough to reply properly.

    I tried a very low dose of the custom b complex I mentioned earlier, but stopped that due to added itchiness and fasciculations. I am trying to figure out a custom multimineral so I can try the b complex again.

    I tried yoghurt made from infantis, but the itchiness increased instead of decreasing.

    I tried gluten free bread, and margarine and baked chicken separately to increase my calorie intake. they all seem to increase oxalate circulation / decrease mental clarity (and other symptoms). so I am still losing weight due to not eating enough. I will try some other foods.

    I suspect b1 and magnesium deficiencies are are causing endogenous oxalate production. whatever I try makes these deficiencies worse. when I supplement them directly, they make other deficiencies worse. I am trying to figure out a sustainable combination of supplements.

    I am open to ideas, oxalate related or otherwise. I have no problem with being completely wrong. I want to get better. at the rate I am getting worse, I am thinking of getting my will set up before I am unable to do so in future.

    Ford
     
  10. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

    Messages:
    435
    Likes:
    397
    I was going through the Unfolded Protein Response thread and saw that things like tinnitus and oxalates are related to FAD, one of the active forms of b2. Anybody thinks that may be part of Ford's problem?
     
    fprefect likes this.
  11. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,840
    Likes:
    3,862
    I wouldn't exclude it, it's hard to say, but have you seen the list of meds and supplements he is taking?
     
    fprefect likes this.
  12. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

    Messages:
    435
    Likes:
    397
    @Gondwanaland

    I just re-read the thread and saw this:

    and your reply:

    So maybe B2, in active form or otherwise, is unlikely to be the answer.

    But I also realised that he never quite addressed his mercury concern.

     
    fprefect likes this.
  13. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,840
    Likes:
    3,862
    Hi Ford, how are you doing?

    Just recently something happened to me and I remembered your issues.

    I tried Magnesium Malate and had allodynia from it. This is because it dissolves uric acid, and I have uric acid deposits in my joints. Fish Oil and B5 help (and B2, B3 and folate worsen it).

    I have found some research linking thyroid problems with gout. Perhaps you could check your renal function. I am hoping myself to see a good dr. in my area before Christmas.
     
    fprefect likes this.
  14. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

    Messages:
    435
    Likes:
    397
    Ford,

    Are you taking selenium? I couldn't find it in your list of medicines and supplements.

    Selenium is widely considered to be good for mercury detox and thyroid function.
     
    fprefect likes this.
  15. fprefect

    fprefect Ford Prefect

    Messages:
    117
    Likes:
    61
    hi everyone. sorry about the lack of response. I have been too low on energy and mental clarity to respond properly.

    @Eastman, thank you for your responses. my b2 was low according to the OAT more than a year ago. I don't think it has improved much. it is probably contributing to my current state.

    I am not taking selenium. my hair test from a year ago suggested my selenium status was normal. it is probably worse now due to the oxalate circulation. I am not taking more since it seems better to decrease oxalate production.

    @Gondwanaland, I seem to be thinking a bit more clearly, but I have added numbness.
    .
    .
    one day later. scratch that. I am thinking less clearly. I thought oxalate dumping had restarted, but it has stopped again. I am still producing oxalates though.

    in recent weeks, I tried b1 again. it increased oxalate dumping.
    .
    .
    six days later. my mental clarity has been too low to respond. anyway, I tried the custom multimineral, but I think it decreased methylation. I don't know what to change in the the custom b complex and custom multimineral. so I am trying starting with 1 b vitamin instead and adding things as it causes added symptoms.

    the good news is b1 increases dumping that persists even after I stop it after a day. the not so good news is it increases numbness in my feet and sensitivity in my teeth.

    b3 decreases the numbness, but also decreases methylation and increases swelling in my feet. I am testing b3 and b12 together, but it doesn't look good.

    the biggest issue is I am not eating enough. the infrequent b1 might have slowed my days getting longer, but I am still losing weight.

    hopeful, I will figure out the combination to sustainably increase the oxalate dumping, speed up my days, eat a normal amount and stop losing weight.

    I will test a smaller dose of b2 next, possibly with b1. I am open to suggestions. it seems the increased dumping is helping, but I am getting worse overall.

    how are you and your husband doing? by the way, another possibility for your allodynia might be decreased methylation. people on Rich's methylation protocol noticed their allodynia improved. fish oil might increase methylation. b3 can decrease it. it seems folate, b2 and magnesium can increase or decrease it. I will look into uric acid. maybe it fits my symptoms better than methylation as an explanation.

    thank you for the link. I will check it out. I would like to get a lot of tests done, but I haven't due to low mental clarity and since everything I try tends to increase oxalate circulation anyway. I had hoped your doctor was effective. I hope you find a good doctor soon.

    this is too long. :rolleyes: sorry about that.

    Ford

    .
    .
    2 days later.
    ps. the oxalate dumping has stopped and oxalate production has taken its place after trying to increase b3 and b12.
     
  16. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

    Messages:
    435
    Likes:
    397
    I can't help you with oxalates as I know little about them.

    However, there are two things that, to me, stand out from your posts.

    You take a lot of medicines and supplements. As Gondwanaland and JES alluded to, some of these can cause problems for your liver and/or may have dangerous side effects. The liver in particular is very important in maintaining health (see for example the thread Unfolded Protein Response and A Possible Treatment for CFS if you have the mental energy, or maybe CFS/ME as a Liver issue if you don't). Some of the symptoms you are having may even be such side effects.

    If I were in your position, I would seriously consider cutting some of your medicines and supplements if possible.

    Which leads to the second thing: your taking alpha lipoic acid despite being mercury-toxic. As caledonia said:

    If you are going to review the list of medicines and supplements you are taking, perhaps ALA should be a priority.
     
    fprefect likes this.
  17. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

    Messages:
    435
    Likes:
    397
    Ford

    I just read about the oxalate-mercury connection from an article on the Weston Price site. I don't know whether it is of use to you or whether you are already aware of it.

     
    Kathevans and fprefect like this.
  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,840
    Likes:
    3,862
    I think oxalate concerned people overlook the role of uric acid. I have been watching out for oxalates for over a year and here am I battling with gout symptoms.
     
    fprefect likes this.
  19. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

    Messages:
    435
    Likes:
    397
    @fprefect

    You have not posted for a long time. How are you doing?
     
    JaimeS and Gondwanaland like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page