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OAT, PLEASE INTERPET

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
Really bad headache today
Headaches are always a sign of lack of B2 for me. It always works for my husband too.

B12 is available from food thru protein breakdown into amino acids by B6 and Folate. Folate makes purines from AAs. B2 makes uric acid from purines. B6 makes urea. B5 is needed to activate B2. B1... B3... Biotin... Choline... it never ends.

Now you know how it looks from inside a snowball.
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
Headaches are always a sign of lack of B2 for me. It always works for my husband too.

I've been thinking about B2. I've been re-reading some notes and there was one that said B12 without adequate B2 can cause adrenaline and cortisol surges. My BP really spiked during my "episode" and I've recently begun to grasp how seriously cortisol/stress can affect your body. Maybe headaches have to do with this as well?

Now you know how it looks from inside a snowball.

I know! It's just crazy, crazy, crazy. I think I have a handle on something and get hammered. It's like one step forward and two back. At best it's informed guesswork. In spite of my setback, I'm convinced B12 is going to be the key to my healing. I feel that something that can cause such a strong reaction (albeit a negative one) can also be an engine for healing.
 

alicec

Senior Member
Messages
1,572
Location
Australia
I wonder if they're just symptoms or if detox/die off was happening. I've been struggling with a sinus infection and yesterday my nose was running like crazy. Usually it's the body's way to rid itself of toxins.

I've doubled up on my liver support (milk thistle,papaya leaf, yarrow).

Really bad headache today

Several things could be going on at once of course, but runny nose and headache could still reflect need for more folate.

You did have a fairly quick response to increased dose. Have you tried increasing further to see if any other symptoms subside?
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
You did have a fairly quick response to increased dose. Have you tried increasing further to see if any other symptoms subside?

I'll try it.

Brain fog has subsided somewhat. The main issue right now seems to be my gut. It was doing so good. I don't know how B12 affects the gut but somehow there's a connection. Maybe it has something to do with the CNS/vagus nerve. I've noticed everything stresses me now. Im avoiding exercise, news, anything stressful or stimulating.

I'm still having a hard time focusing and everything is blurry.
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
@John Mac I think you're right about experiencing a histamine reaction (flu like symptoms). I read that herxing can cause an overproduction of histamine. I also read that histamine depletes methy groups so I can see a vicious cycle happening. In addition to avoiding histamine reactive foods, what else has helped you? DAO supplements with porcine kidney extracts are prohibitively expensive.
 

John Mac

Senior Member
Messages
321
Location
Liverpool UK
@John Mac I think you're right about experiencing a histamine reaction (flu like symptoms). I read that herxing can cause an overproduction of histamine. I also read that histamine depletes methy groups so I can see a vicious cycle happening. In addition to avoiding histamine reactive foods, what else has helped you? DAO supplements with porcine kidney extracts are prohibitively expensive.

Calling @Johnmac
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
I'm back to my original dose of 2.5 mg MB12 and 5 mg adB12 and seem to be leveling out.

B complexes seem to be a challenge for me. I added:

Source Naturals coenzymated b6 300 mg
Swanson r-5-p 50 mg
Solar Biotin 10 mg

I noticed an immediate effect: brain fog lifted; less anxious; sleep soundly.

Unfortunately they also gave me an upset stomach. I do so much better with sublinguals. I've decided to order MB12 and B complex oils but they're on Chrismas break until mid Jan??? I'm going to try to crush b complexes and mix with oil and apply topically. Has anyone experience with this?

I feel I'm close to a break through but keep running into obstacles. Trial and error.
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
@John Mac I think you're right about experiencing a histamine reaction (flu like symptoms). I read that herxing can cause an overproduction of histamine. I also read that histamine depletes methy groups so I can see a vicious cycle happening. In addition to avoiding histamine reactive foods, what else has helped you? DAO supplements with porcine kidney extracts are prohibitively expensive.

Well I'm still finding my own way with this one. So far I avoid all the histaminic foods. That seems to work, tho I keep getting whacked when I forget or don't notice a histaminic food & eat it. But when I'm on the straight & narrow I feel very good, so I don't know if I will need the DAO-boosters or other help. Will see.

Strangely my histamine problem has flared up with improving methylation & improving gut - which has me puzzled.
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
I've increased B6 to 12.5 mg and doubled fiber (arabinglactan, glycomannan). My gut seems to be much better. No more flare ups to sensitive foods. I've also added Quercertin (1500 mg).

Holding steady at:
2.5 mg MB12
5 mg AdB12
12.5 mg B2
12.5 mg B6
10 mg folate
10 mg biotin

I don't feel that the B protocol is addressing inflammation as well as I'd like.

In Dr Parker's book, The Antioxidant Miracle, he says that vit c and e, glutathione, ALA, and QoQ10 work synergistically in what he calls the antioxidant network. I'm increasing a-tocopherol to 100 mg, mixed tocopherol to 200 mg and mixed tocotreinols to 100 mg. I'm adding ALA (100 mg).

On a side note: has anyone tried LDN?
 
Last edited:

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
I've increased B6 to 12.5 mg and doubled fiber (arabinglactan, glycomannan). My gut seems to be much better. No more flare ups to sensitive foods. I've also added Quercertin (1500 mg).

Holding steady at:
2.5 mg MB12
5 mg AdB12
12.5 mg B2
12.5 mg B6
10 mg folate
10 mg biotin

I don't feel that the B protocol is addressing inflammation as well as I'd like.

In Dr Parker's book, The Antioxidant Miracle, he says that vit c and e, glutathione, ALA, and QoQ10 work synergistically in what he calls the antioxidant network. I'm increasing a-tocopherol to 100 mg, mixed tocopherol to 200 mg and mixed tocotreinols to 100 mg. I'm adding ALA (100 mg).

On a side note: has anyone tried LDN?

@Jimbo39, you know about ALA & mercury, right?
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
Assuming by ALA you mean alpha lipoic acid:

ALA is the most potent mercury chelator. Some people who take it episodically, & who have amalgam dental fillings, or just a lot of mercury in their bodies from vaccines or whatever, experience unpleasant effects called redistribution. The mercury moves from one place to the other in your system, & you get brainfog, fatigue & sometimes worse.

That's why the Cutler chelation people take ALA around the clock - that keeps it at constant levels, preventing redistribution.
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
@Johnmac Thanks for the warning but it seems like most supplements have side effects and the fear of them prevents us from doing anything. We're all so different and I think the only way we can know if something is beneficial or detrimental is to try it.

My serum mercury is <dl. I know this doesn't measure Mercury sequestered in tissues or organs but I think it's a reasonable indicator. I had my amalgams safely removed years ago. I think I'll try it for about a month and have another test done to see if I'm chelating.
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
@Johnmac Thanks for the warning but it seems like most supplements have side effects and the fear of them prevents us from doing anything. We're all so different and I think the only way we can know if something is beneficial or detrimental is to try it.

My serum mercury is <dl. I know this doesn't measure Mercury sequestered in tissues or organs but I think it's a reasonable indicator. I had my amalgams safely removed years ago. I think I'll try it for about a month and have another test done to see if I'm chelating.

Fair enough Jimbo. Yes, I wasn't suggesting you don't try it - just to be aware of the sfx. Tho having no amalgams should help with that.

I had no amalgams & still had pretty strong redistribution the first time I tried ALA (episodically). But once I recovered after a week, I felt okay about it because I'd learned something.
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
had no amalgams & still had pretty strong redistribution the first time I tried ALA (episodically). But once I recovered after a week, I felt okay about it because I'd learned something.

What were your symptoms? Are you doing anything to remove mercury?
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
Brainfog is rhe one I remember best - I kept getting lost in my driveway. Slight exaggeration - but I was very vagued out.

Yes, I've been doing Cutler chelation for 3-4 years - ~70 rounds of ALA + DMSA.