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New MEGA study website (30 November 2016)

Dx Revision Watch

Suzy Chapman Owner of Dx Revision Watch
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3,061
Location
UK
MEGA patient advisory group:http://www.megaresearch.me.uk/get-involved/
How to apply (please note that AfME are administering the applications but are not involved in the selection process)

Please complete the application form and return it to Action for M.E., who are administering the recruitment while the MEGA team sets up its communications channels.

The closing date for applications is 9am 6 December 2016. Applications will be considered by a panel consisting of representatives from the ME Association and ME Research UK and a representative from the MEGA team, Prof Paul Little.

Please ensure that you state fully how you meet the criteria/person specification in your application. Successful applicants will be selected by scoring by the panel against this specification.

I note from the Properties window for the Application form that the document was authored by Sonya Chawdhury.

Why has such an inappropriately short date been set for receipt of applications?

And whose decision was this, that is, who set the closing date?

Why was MEA prepared to sign off on that decision?
 
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Jonathan Edwards

"Gibberish"
Messages
5,256
You might not have meant it this way, but this isn't a pot that can be spent on mecfs research in other ways - this is a grant application to Wellcome against allcomers from every illness. All other mecfs researchers can continue to apply for projects purusing whatever they think is a better way to pursue research. And I hope they will, but I think people need to be clear this isn't 'taking money away' from alternative projects. Wellcome have never funded a mecfs project before, MEGA are trying to tap into new funds and a new funder.

I agree the deadline is unreasonably tight, given they are recruiting patients. Even if people are well enough to contribute, they may have a temporary flare that makes applying now impossible.

I am afraid in practice it is a pot that can be spent on MECFS other ways. Or to put it another way if this project is set up and done badly there is precious little chance of anything similar being set up properly. Wellcome applications open to all comers are in reality a lot more complicated than that. Two past directors of the Wellcome have been personal friends. As I see it MEGA is just one lot of researchers wanting a grant. They need to show that it is a good project. As I pointed out to Stephen Holgate, the problem for me is that the track record so far is that at least some of the people involved do not appear to understand what a good project entails.

There is nothing original about doing lots of genes or lots of metabolics. Others are already doing this. To justify funding we need to see something special in terms of methodological quality or at least as good as is already in existence.
 

charles shepherd

Senior Member
Messages
2,239
If you're critical of CBT/GET then you're probably wasting your time applying for a position as patient advisor.

Three of the requirements for patient advisors:







Seems designed to filter individuals who might object to a psychiatric agenda.

There is no reason why someone who has constructive and critical concerns and objections to CBT and GET in relation to ME/CFS cannot be a member of the MEGA study patient advisory group

I clearly take (and have always taken) a very critical view of these approaches to management (as set out below)

And I have not been told that I cannot be a member of the PAG!

MEA CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS re CBT, GET AND PACING
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT)

We (ie the MES) conclude that CBT in its current delivered form should not be recommended as a primary intervention for people with ME/CFS.

CBT courses based on the model that abnormal beliefs and behaviours are responsible for maintaining the illness, have no role to play in the management of ME/CFS and increase the risk of symptoms becoming worse. The belief of some CBT practitioners that ME/CFS is a psychological illness was the main factor which led to less symptoms improving, less courses being appropriate to needs, more symptoms becoming worse and more courses being seen as inappropriate.

Our results indicate that graded exercise therapy should form no part of any activity management advice employed in the delivery of CBT, as this also led to a negative impact on outcomes.

There is a clear need for better training among practitioners. The data indicates that lack of knowledge and experience had a direct effect on outcomes and remained a key factor, even where courses were held in specialist clinics or elsewhere given by therapists with an ME/CFS specialism.

However, our results did indicate that, when used appropriately, the practical coping component of CBT can have a positive effect in helping some patients come to terms with their diagnosis and adapt their lives to best accommodate it.

CBT was also seen to have a positive effect in helping some patients deal with comorbid issues – anxiety, depression, stress – which may occur at any time for someone with a long-term disabling illness.

An appropriate model of CBT – one that helps patients learn practical coping skills and/or manage co-morbid issues such as those listed above – could be employed, where appropriate, for ME/CFS as it is for other chronic physical illnesses such as multiple sclerosis, Parkinson’s disease, cancer, heart disease, and arthritis and we recommend all patients should have access to such courses as well as access to follow-up courses and/or consultations as and when required.

Graded Exercise Therapy (GET)

We conclude that GET should be withdrawn with immediate effect as a primary intervention for everyone with ME/CFS.

One of the main factors that led to patients reporting that GET was inappropriate was the very nature of GET itself, especially when it was used on the basis that there is no underlying physical cause for their symptoms, and that patients are basically ill because of inactivity and deconditioning.

A significant number of patients had been given advice on exercise and activity management that was judged harmful with symptoms becoming worse or much worse and leading to relapse. And it is worth noting that despite current NICE recommendations, a significant number of severe to very severe patients were recommended GET by practitioners and/or had taken part in GET courses.

The other major factor contributing to worsening symptoms was the incorrect belief held by some practitioners that ME/CFS is a psychological condition leading to erroneous advice that exercise could overcome the illness if only patients would ‘push through’.

We recognise that it is impossible for all treatments for a disease to be free from side-effects, but if GET was a licensed medication, we believe the number of people reporting significant adverse effects would lead to a review of its use by regulatory authorities.

As a physical exercise-based therapy, GET may be of benefit to a sub-group who come under the ME/CFS umbrella and are able to tolerate regular and progressive increases in some form of aerobic activity, irrespective of their symptoms. However, identifying a patient who could come within that sub-group is problematic and not possible at present.

Some patients indicated that they had been on a course which had a gentle approach of graded activity rather than a more robust and structured approach of graded physical exercise. There were some reports that patients were told they should not exercise when they felt too unwell to do so. These led, for some, to an improvement in symptoms or to symptoms remaining unaffected.

However, we conclude that GET cannot be regarded as a safe and effective form of treatment for the majority of people with ME/CFS. The fact that many people, including those who consider themselves severely affected, are being referred to specialist services for an intervention that makes them either worse or much worse is clearly unacceptable and in many cases dangerous.

GET should therefore be withdrawn by NICE and from NHS specialist services as a recommended treatment with immediate effect for everyone who has a diagnosis of ME/CFS. This advice should remain until there are reliable methods for determining which people who come under the ME/CFS umbrella are likely to find that GET is a safe and effective form of management.

Pacing

Pacing was consistently shown to be the most effective, safe, acceptable and preferred form of activity management for people with ME/CFS and should therefore be a key component of any illness management programme.

For some, improvement may be a slow process so, whilst they may be somewhat better by the end of a course, the improvement is not enough to take them into a better category of severity for some time, perhaps not until they have self-managed their illness for a few years.

The benefit of Pacing may relate to helping people cope and adapt to their illness rather than contributing to a significant improvement in functional status. Learning coping strategies can help make courses more appropriate to needs even if they do not lead to immediate or even longer term improvement in symptoms. Importantly, it can prevent symptoms from becoming worse.

Pacing can be just as applicable to someone who is severely affected, as to someone who is mildly or moderately affected, although additional measures need to be taken to ensure that a person who is severely affected has equal access to services.

As with CBT, there must be better training for practitioners who are to deliver such management courses. Proposed increases in activity, both mental and physical, must be gradual, flexible and individually tailored to a patient’s ability and circumstance and not progressively increased regardless of how the patient is responding and therapists must be taught to recognise that.

All patients should have access to suitable courses, follow-up courses and/or consultations as and when required.

Note: Please see Sections 4 and 5 for our full conclusions and recommendations. Caveats are set out in Section 6.
 

Jonathan Edwards

"Gibberish"
Messages
5,256
If you're critical of CBT/GET then you're probably wasting your time applying for a position as patient advisor.

Three of the requirements for patient advisors:
Seems designed to filter individuals who might object to a psychiatric agenda.

Very much so. This is the same old business that if you disagree with us you are not welcome. We do not want to put people off but we are trying our hardest to do so.
 

slysaint

Senior Member
Messages
2,125
Finally
"Looking far ahead one may hope that the changes in particular genes, added together in different combinations in different patients, will help to explain both the underlying diseases mechanisms and also the spectrum of symptoms experienced by patients."
or it could be a huge waste of time,money and resources (like most of Crawleys research) leaving us with CBT/GET forever.
 

charles shepherd

Senior Member
Messages
2,239
You might not have meant it this way, but this isn't a pot that can be spent on mecfs research in other ways - this is a grant application to Wellcome against allcomers from every illness. All other mecfs researchers can continue to apply for projects purusing whatever they think is a better way to pursue research. And I hope they will, but I think people need to be clear this isn't 'taking money away' from alternative projects. Wellcome have never funded a mecfs project before, MEGA are trying to tap into new funds and a new funder.

I agree the deadline is unreasonably tight, given they are recruiting patients. Even if people are well enough to contribute, they may have a temporary flare that makes applying now impossible.


Simon - I agree with you and I took the position that this is a very short deadline for people to submit applications

I will see if the others will agree to an extension and I will also raise this with Professor Holgate when he comes to the House of Lords meeting next week

CS
 

charles shepherd

Senior Member
Messages
2,239
If this project and the patient orgs that are involved in it seeks to retain an ounce of credibility, the first response should be to increase the Patient Advisory application period to at least 4 weeks.

I agree with you and I took the position that this is a very short deadline for people to submit applications

I will see if the others will agree to an extension and I will also raise this with Professor Holgate when he comes to the House of Lords meeting next week

CS
 

BurnA

Senior Member
Messages
2,087
You might not have meant it this way, but this isn't a pot that can be spent on mecfs research in other ways - this is a grant application to Wellcome against allcomers from every illness. All other mecfs researchers can continue to apply for projects purusing whatever they think is a better way to pursue research. And I hope they will, but I think people need to be clear this isn't 'taking money away' from alternative projects. Wellcome have never funded a mecfs project before, MEGA are trying to tap into new funds and a new funder.
Simon, your argument doesn't make sense to me. Regardless of Welcome being a new funder or not, they only give out so much money every year.
If they give money to MEGA then there is less money in the pot for everyone else, including anyone else who applies for ME research. This is true regardless of if they have never given out money before to ME or not.

It's not like Wellcome have a dedicated pot for MEGA and nobody else can get it.
 

Dx Revision Watch

Suzy Chapman Owner of Dx Revision Watch
Messages
3,061
Location
UK
Simon - I agree with you and I took the position that this is a very short deadline for people to submit applications

I will see if the others will agree to an extension and I will also raise this with Professor Holgate when he comes to the House of Lords meeting next week

CS

So why did the MEA sign off on this?

So MEA's views already being disregarded?
 

charles shepherd

Senior Member
Messages
2,239
satisfactory according to who?

Once the protocol has been decided by the MEGA planning group, MEA trustees will decide whether this meets all their concerns and questions relating to patient assessment, patient selection, the inclusion of distinct cohorts such as those with severe ME/CFS, use of the ME Biobank samples, and the choice researchers who are going to be involved

If we believe it does then we will support the MEGA study moving forward

If we are not happy with what is being proposed we will not provide any further support to the MEGA bid

We have also been asking for MEA membership feedback on what is known so far and we will be consulting our members again in February (the next publication date for the MEA magazine) when there should be more information available about patient assessment and selection etc

As to how we ask our members to comment on the final protocol, and whether they want their charity to support the bid for funding, this has still to be decided and is something that will be discussed when MEA trustees hold their next (Research) meeting on Monday 5th December

But some form of membership yes/no vote is clearly one possibility

We continue to welcome the views of our members on this as well - because we will be taking serious note of what they have to say when it comes to making a decision as to whether we want to approve (or not approve) the MEGA study
 

charles shepherd

Senior Member
Messages
2,239
So why did the MEA sign off on this?

I don't know if you have ever worked in a group where different people have different views on a specific decision that has to be made.

But it's quite a common process out there in the real world and it does sometimes mean that you end up accepting a decision that you may not necessarily agree with……….
 

Dx Revision Watch

Suzy Chapman Owner of Dx Revision Watch
Messages
3,061
Location
UK
I don't know if you have ever worked in a group where different people have different views on a specific decision that has to be made.

But it's quite a common process out there in the real world and it does sometimes mean that you end up accepting a decision that you may not necessarily agree with……….

Well that was a patronizing response.
 

Simon

Senior Member
Messages
3,789
Location
Monmouth, UK
I am afraid in practice it is a pot that can be spent on MECFS other ways. Or to put it another way if this project is set up and done badly there is precious little chance of anything similar being set up properly.
But no one else is thinking of setting up a project on this scale, surely? And more to the point, Wellcome haven't funded anything before, there was no competition from MEGA before, yet no funding for mecfs in previous years - I don't see the logic. And applying to Wellcome won't affect applications to the MRC either. I'm baffled by the argument here.