• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Neutrophil and lymphocyte levels consistently changing. Is this normal?

i-lava-u

Senior Member
Messages
691
Location
Utah, USA
In October of 2017, I started taking Famvir 3 x daily 500 Mg (1500 mg total daily) for EBV. I have had my blood monitored while taking this medication.

Most values look pretty normal with the exception of my Neutrophil and Lymphocyte counts, which have consistently gone up and down respectively:

Neutrophil % (ref: 36.0-66.0)

11/01/2017 62.6%
12/20/2017 69.6%
04/06/2018 73.7%

Lymphocyte % (ref: 24.0-44.0)


11/01/2017 25.5%
12/20/2017 21.8%
04/06/2018 18.2%


Is this a normal reaction to taking antiviral medication, or cause for concern? Any input would be much appreciated. :confused:
 

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,931
@i-lava-u

unfortunately you didn't share the lymphocytes and neutrophils real numbers/mm3,
but your results seem to indicate that your lymphocytes decreased,
which is expected when some viral infection is fading away
 

Diwi9

Administrator
Messages
1,780
Location
USA
@i-lava-u - I'm on Valtrex and have labs taken every month, for nearly the past year. These numbers always shift for me, when I was on antivirals and before I was on them...but I see how you are getting a linear progression is opposite directions. My neutrophils bounced up when I first started AV's, but came back down.

@Hip - Do you have any comment on how AV's might affect these blood values?
 

i-lava-u

Senior Member
Messages
691
Location
Utah, USA
Thanks @Shoshana

unfortunately you didn't share the lymphocytes and neutrophils real numbers/mm3
What is mm3?

@Diwi9 I have also had weird blips from time to time before antivirals and on them. This is the second antiviral go round for me. In 2016, I tried acyclovir but could not tolerate, then Valacyclovir for about 9 months but no improvement, not even minuscule. Insurance did not cover and it was VERY expensive out of pocket so I discontinued. My insurance now covers Famvir hence why I decided to give it another go.

This is a new pattern for me, the pretty clear and consistent change in values.
 

Diwi9

Administrator
Messages
1,780
Location
USA
Thanks @Shoshana


What is mm3?

@Diwi9 I have also had weird blips from time to time before antivirals and on them. This is the second antiviral go round for me. In 2016, I tried acyclovir but could not tolerate, then Valacyclovir for about 9 months but no improvement, not even minuscule. Insurance did not cover and it was VERY expensive out of pocket so I discontinued. My insurance now covers Famvir hence why I decided to give it another go.

This is a new pattern for me, the pretty clear and consistent change in values.
Wow, you have some experience under your belt with AV's! I'm still on Valtrex, but another doctor said they would have put me on Famvir...which is what I'll try if the Valtrex doesn't work out. Had an amazing response for a while, then I crashed hard and am still climbing out of it.
 

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,931
Thanks @Shoshana


What is mm3?

.

giving differential % means absolutly nothing by itself, you must share absolute counts (mm3 = µl)

Here the normal ranges:

White+blood+count.jpg
 

i-lava-u

Senior Member
Messages
691
Location
Utah, USA
Thanks for the chart @pattismith my blood work from lab says absolute count is (I didn't do the math based on the chart you sent me, this is directly from lab results "absolute counts"):

Neutrophils, Absolute K/uL(ref: 1.8-6.8)

11/01/2017 4.4
12/20/2017 4.1
04/06/2018 4.9


Lymphs, Absolute K/uL (ref: 1.2-3.4)


11/01/2017 1.8
12/20/2017 1.3
04/06/2018 1.2

*Are these the values I plug into the math equation, or is this the answer, so I don't need to do the math equation? My brain is full of fog and thick mud so I'm confused :D

@Gondwanaland I don't eat coconut oil very often, so for me anyway, I don't think this is linked. The human body is so weird and confusing. I try to do as much as I can to be as healthy as I can and the choice to take antivirals is to potentially help my health. I hope it is not doing more to harm my health :(
 
Last edited:

i-lava-u

Senior Member
Messages
691
Location
Utah, USA
Had an amazing response for a while, then I crashed hard and am still climbing out of it.
I am glad it worked for you for awhile, that is good news that it may keep working again. That sucks you crashed, it's hard to tell if you are improving or not when that happens. I started taking Famvir in October and thought I noticed a bit of improvement, then had a big crash beginning of December (from a cardiac treadmill test and allergic reaction to a medication) I am also trying to climb out of this deep dark hole I fell in. It is very disheartening :(

I hope some improvement is headed your way soon :hug:
 

Diwi9

Administrator
Messages
1,780
Location
USA
@i-lava-u - About five weeks after starting Valtrex, I started to feel fantastic. A few weeks later I started the ProLon fasting mimicking diet per my doctor, it set me back...way back...and I was so hopeful it would improve things...just now starting to bump out of the setback.

Setbacks are so difficult when all one really wants is to get better, and setbacks with this illness are not hiccups, no, they are - as you describe - deep dark holes. I'm sorry your treadmill test and allergic reaction did this to you...we never know if one experience of overdoing it can ruin months of progress.

Thank you for the well-wishes, I'm sending the same hope your way!
 

SunMoonsStars

Senior Member
Messages
159
@i-lava-u

unfortunately you didn't share the lymphocytes and neutrophils real numbers/mm3,
but your results seem to indicate that your lymphocytes decreased,
which is expected when some viral infection is fading away
Do you know why this is expected ?
My lymphocytes have dropped and particularly B cells and have gone way down to below normal and wondering if it’s a temporary good sign or a concern. Both abs and % in low range.
 

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,931
Do you know why this is expected ?
My lymphocytes have dropped and particularly B cells and have gone way down to below normal and wondering if it’s a temporary good sign or a concern. Both abs and % in low range.

my lymphocytes were all the time in the lower range, but they raised a lot since I started my T3 trial, so it may be related.
 

Intuition

Dance with ME
Messages
26
Location
Melbourne, Australia
@i-lava-u : generally if the absolute counts are fine, I don't really pay much attention to the percentage. White cell differential counts can vary daily and the borderline 1.2 lymphocyte count can be just normal fluctuation. As the trend is decreasing, I would probably just recheck it in 4-6 weeks to ensure it comes back up.

@SunMoonsStars : unfourtnately I don't know enough about B cells to make a comment as it is wayyy outside my field of expertise.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
my lymphocytes were all the time in the lower range, but they raised a lot since I started my T3 trial, so it may be related.
That is interesting, because Ray Peat recommends coconut oil for increasing T4 --> T3 conversion. Whenever I consume coconut oil for a a couple of weeks in a row my lymphocyte count drops.