The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
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Neutrophil and lymphocyte levels consistently changing. Is this normal?

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by i-lava-u, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. i-lava-u

    i-lava-u Senior Member

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    In October of 2017, I started taking Famvir 3 x daily 500 Mg (1500 mg total daily) for EBV. I have had my blood monitored while taking this medication.

    Most values look pretty normal with the exception of my Neutrophil and Lymphocyte counts, which have consistently gone up and down respectively:

    Neutrophil % (ref: 36.0-66.0)

    11/01/2017 62.6%
    12/20/2017 69.6%
    04/06/2018 73.7%

    Lymphocyte % (ref: 24.0-44.0)


    11/01/2017 25.5%
    12/20/2017 21.8%
    04/06/2018 18.2%


    Is this a normal reaction to taking antiviral medication, or cause for concern? Any input would be much appreciated. :confused:
     
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  2. Shoshana

    Shoshana Northern USA

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    I know nothing about this, but I am thinking of you, and hoping that someone else has an answer for you with some helpful info.
     
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  3. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    @i-lava-u

    unfortunately you didn't share the lymphocytes and neutrophils real numbers/mm3,
    but your results seem to indicate that your lymphocytes decreased,
    which is expected when some viral infection is fading away
     
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  4. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    @i-lava-u - I'm on Valtrex and have labs taken every month, for nearly the past year. These numbers always shift for me, when I was on antivirals and before I was on them...but I see how you are getting a linear progression is opposite directions. My neutrophils bounced up when I first started AV's, but came back down.

    @Hip - Do you have any comment on how AV's might affect these blood values?
     
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  5. i-lava-u

    i-lava-u Senior Member

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    Thanks @Shoshana

    What is mm3?

    @Diwi9 I have also had weird blips from time to time before antivirals and on them. This is the second antiviral go round for me. In 2016, I tried acyclovir but could not tolerate, then Valacyclovir for about 9 months but no improvement, not even minuscule. Insurance did not cover and it was VERY expensive out of pocket so I discontinued. My insurance now covers Famvir hence why I decided to give it another go.

    This is a new pattern for me, the pretty clear and consistent change in values.
     
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  6. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    Wow, you have some experience under your belt with AV's! I'm still on Valtrex, but another doctor said they would have put me on Famvir...which is what I'll try if the Valtrex doesn't work out. Had an amazing response for a while, then I crashed hard and am still climbing out of it.
     
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  7. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I don't know anything about it unfortunately.
     
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  8. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    giving differential % means absolutly nothing by itself, you must share absolute counts (mm3 = µl)

    Here the normal ranges:

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Whenever I consume coconut oil for a while my lymphocyte count sinks (from 1,500+ to below 500). The same happened to my husband. I observed it happening several times.
     
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  10. i-lava-u

    i-lava-u Senior Member

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    Thanks for the chart @pattismith my blood work from lab says absolute count is (I didn't do the math based on the chart you sent me, this is directly from lab results "absolute counts"):

    Neutrophils, Absolute K/uL(ref: 1.8-6.8)

    11/01/2017 4.4
    12/20/2017 4.1
    04/06/2018 4.9


    Lymphs, Absolute K/uL (ref: 1.2-3.4)


    11/01/2017 1.8
    12/20/2017 1.3
    04/06/2018 1.2

    *Are these the values I plug into the math equation, or is this the answer, so I don't need to do the math equation? My brain is full of fog and thick mud so I'm confused :D

    @Gondwanaland I don't eat coconut oil very often, so for me anyway, I don't think this is linked. The human body is so weird and confusing. I try to do as much as I can to be as healthy as I can and the choice to take antivirals is to potentially help my health. I hope it is not doing more to harm my health :(
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
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  11. i-lava-u

    i-lava-u Senior Member

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    I am glad it worked for you for awhile, that is good news that it may keep working again. That sucks you crashed, it's hard to tell if you are improving or not when that happens. I started taking Famvir in October and thought I noticed a bit of improvement, then had a big crash beginning of December (from a cardiac treadmill test and allergic reaction to a medication) I am also trying to climb out of this deep dark hole I fell in. It is very disheartening :(

    I hope some improvement is headed your way soon :hug:
     
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  12. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    @i-lava-u - About five weeks after starting Valtrex, I started to feel fantastic. A few weeks later I started the ProLon fasting mimicking diet per my doctor, it set me back...way back...and I was so hopeful it would improve things...just now starting to bump out of the setback.

    Setbacks are so difficult when all one really wants is to get better, and setbacks with this illness are not hiccups, no, they are - as you describe - deep dark holes. I'm sorry your treadmill test and allergic reaction did this to you...we never know if one experience of overdoing it can ruin months of progress.

    Thank you for the well-wishes, I'm sending the same hope your way!
     
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  13. SunMoonsStars

    SunMoonsStars Senior Member

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    Do you know why this is expected ?
    My lymphocytes have dropped and particularly B cells and have gone way down to below normal and wondering if it’s a temporary good sign or a concern. Both abs and % in low range.
     
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  14. i-lava-u

    i-lava-u Senior Member

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    I can't recall the names of people with medical background I have seen on this site except @Intuition . Do you have any ideas about my neutrophil and lymphocyte numbers and also for @SunMoonsStars ?
     
  15. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    my lymphocytes were all the time in the lower range, but they raised a lot since I started my T3 trial, so it may be related.
     
  16. Intuition

    Intuition Dance with ME

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    @i-lava-u : generally if the absolute counts are fine, I don't really pay much attention to the percentage. White cell differential counts can vary daily and the borderline 1.2 lymphocyte count can be just normal fluctuation. As the trend is decreasing, I would probably just recheck it in 4-6 weeks to ensure it comes back up.

    @SunMoonsStars : unfourtnately I don't know enough about B cells to make a comment as it is wayyy outside my field of expertise.
     
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  17. i-lava-u

    i-lava-u Senior Member

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    Thank you for your input and explanation @Intuition :)
     
  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    That is interesting, because Ray Peat recommends coconut oil for increasing T4 --> T3 conversion. Whenever I consume coconut oil for a a couple of weeks in a row my lymphocyte count drops.
     
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