Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
http://phoenixrising.me/research-2/the-brain-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs/choline-on-the-brain-a-guide-to-choline-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-by-cort-johnson-aug-2005
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neuro and stool tests second opinion

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by SwanRonson, Dec 12, 2014.

  1. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    I just got my saliva/urine/stool tests back and here are the results. My doctor won't be back until next wednesday, so I wanted to post them here to see if anything stood out to anyone. Obviously the taurine is high and the epinephrine is low. Seratonin and dopamine are both on the very low end of normal as well. That sample was collected at 9:00 am.

    saliva-urine-stool.jpg

    The stool test says:

    Negative for yeast, parasites, campylobacter, shiga, giardia, cryptosporidium, salmonella, e.coliO157, yersinia, vibrio, aeromonas, proteus or pseudonomas.

    "Moderate growth mixed gram negative rods/flora and moderate growth mixed gram positive rods/flora. Mixed flora consists predominantly of: nontoxigenic e. coli (moderate growth), streptococcus gallolyticus (moderate growth)"
     
  2. Research 1st

    Research 1st Severe ME, POTS & MCAS.

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    Hi, here's my two cents.

    The Neuroscience company you used for your tests appears to use Pharmasan Labs, they have CLIA certification which is good, however, I don't know if they're accredited by anyone with clout. Obviously, this is not an 'FDA' approved test, and no one is claiming it is.

    What I mean is, that as a doctor siting in his/her office, this is the first thing they will think when they see this test result. Is it 'legit'? The answer is yes, but then there are so many other variables such as:

    Is the method of detection in-house, or used by others? Is the method of detection considered reliable? If not, are there superior ways to measure what you want to look at.

    I'd say a key question here is, is looking at the levels of various metabolites in creatine a reliable way to measure neurotransmitter levels in the sample (e.g. blood/urine)? If you can get the answer to this, then I would have much more faith in the result. NB: The result isn't 'wrong', you just have to know if it's reflective of true neurotransmitter levels in your brain. If you can afford it, a possible thing to do is to re-take the test in a few months. (Doctors generally don't like single shot test results for something they are being asked to act upon, especially if the test method is from a private lab and not in general use).

    Your Taurine is high. I am struggling to find any research on this or how it related to CFS to be honest probably as it's very hard to assess levels of it in the brain without some wonderfully expensive brain scan or more invasive method.

    The paper below may interest you, although I cannot possibly say if your test is 'reliable' or indeed is looking in the correct area to associate with the research below. I am just showing you some possible links to immunity/neurology because..... CFS seems to involve toxicity of some sort to neurons, making them 'excited'. This could be anything I presume from oxidative stress/autoimmunity or even pathogens.

    See:

    Taurine prevents the neurotoxicity of beta-amyloid and glutamate receptor agonists: activation of GABA receptors and possible implications for Alzheimer's disease and other neurological disorders.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15003996

    PDF here:
    http://www.fasebj.org/content/18/3/511.full.pdf

    If i had your test result, I'd see what the doctor says, repeated it if necessary and also take a look at my Melatonin levels (probably low in CFS),and also at glutamine/glutamate amino acids with a 24hr urine test.

    In CFS I would expect the glutamine/glutamate results to be abnormal. Other CFS patients have found this also. What it means, I cannot say for certain. It's just generally interesting I find, to discover consistent abnormalities.

    I hope you get some favorable response from your doctor, but also try and be realistic how they will respond, especially if they are not CFS specialists or experienced in understand the relevance of amino acid readings.
     
    SwanRonson likes this.
  3. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    The ordering doctor is a naturopathic M.D. that I've been seeing, so hopefully she will be able to interpret it well. I don't know her credentials with regards to CFS but I don't have an official diagnosis of that yet either, even though that seems more and more likely with each standard test that comes back negative. This is all so new. Thank you for the help.

    Do you have a more reputable lab that you would recommend for these types of tests?
     
  4. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    Your adrenal graph looks just like mine did (I took the 24 hour salivary a few years ago). A high "morning response" then low, low and low. I think this is a stress type of response. You're anxious probably in the AM but feel better at the end of the day.
     
  5. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    That's right. I always have some relief at the end of the day. The fog lifts a bit. I generally wake up worried about work since the brain fog makes doing my computer job so difficult.

    That streptococcus gallolyticus being a large part of my gut flora has me concerned. That's a nasty pathogenic bacteria that seems to play a role in colon cancer. It can also cause meningitis and endocarditis if it crosses into the blood stream. Time for another gastro appointment I guess. :(
     
  6. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    For me, high taurine was associated with low B6. Apparently I have an inability to convert it to P5P, but P5P is available over the counter, so problem solved. I would trade you for your cortisol profile. My morning was in the evening range, then undetectable the rest of the day. Sorry about the nasty strep bug.
     
  7. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    Low B6 would make sense with my pyroluria test results being so high. Do you take P5P daily?
     
  8. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Yes, daily. So, here's my story: I was told to take B6 by an acupuncturist treating me for carpel tunnel. I took 100 mg/day like he said. A few months later I tested amino acids (serum) that showed several pointers to low B6. Confounded, but aware of other mutations that slow down activation of other vitamins, I switched to P5P, so if there was an activation issue, I would skip it. My numbers came into line. I have used as little as 50 mg, and as much as 100 mg daily. Sometimes I've used 50 mg plus whatever is in Jarrow B Right, and now I've switched my B complex to Emerald, I'm taking 100 mg because it contains 50 mg in the complex. Doesn't seem toxic to me. (In fact, I feel like the sun came out since I switched to Emerald. But that could also be that I started more B2 at the same time; who knows?)

    Edited to note that I've never tested positive for pyroluria.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2014
  9. ernie24

    ernie24

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    SwanRonson, how did you make out with the streptococcus gallolyticus? My report came back, same thing and all I see is terrible stuff about it. As I read further though, it seems to only be a problem if it compromises the intestinal barrier and causes an infection. So it looks like a chicken/egg thing. Did the CRC come first and allow the pathogen to enter the blood, or did the pathogen cause the CRC? Anyway, not sure where to begin to get rid of it. There is NO info on that.... Anti-biotics? Pro-biotics?
     
  10. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    My last stool test was in December and all strep species had been greatly reduced to what you could probably call "normal" levels. I took a round of Amoxicillin in an acid resistant capsule combined with drinking a high alkaline mineral water consistently 20-30 minutes before eating each meal.

    Strep Gall. is a subspecies of strep bovis that thrives in highly acid environments, so alkalizing the bowels as best I can along with the antibiotic was the route I took. It's the culprit with grain overload acidosis in cattle because it takes the rumen pH down so low that it's the only thing that can survive.

    I still drink high alkaline mineral water on an empty stomach every day.
     
  11. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    BTW, I had to get the Amoxicillin compounded to get it acid resistant.
     
  12. ernie24

    ernie24

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    Great information and I am very appreciative! One more question, what kind of Dr. or neuropath did you visit? I am having a hard time locating anyone who is well informed on this subject outside of "Internet Doctors!"
     

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