Need assistance adjusting methylation protocol

[juniemarie]

Was doing fine for a while but, surprise surprise hit a wall….yes have read all the links in peoples signatures and googled PR for hours and still can't figure out what to add, get rid of, increase or decrease.
Taking: 2.5 mg country life methylb12
1 Swansons Activated B Complex, which contains 250 mcg mb12 & 400mcg mfloate
400 mcg Solgar mfolate
18g B2 FMN form for my MAO +/+
Yesterday started getting my classic reaction or symptoms flu like feeling, hot watery burning eyes, mild headache, achy joints, feel hot and feverish, slight ache in ears.
Can someone chime in who's been tweaking their protocol for a while and may have an idea on what to try next

 

[Kathevans]

First of all, I think you mean 18 mg of the sublingual B2, right? My thought on reading your post is that it's possible the B2, which I understand drives your need for folate, makes your total of 800mcg of folate too low. Just a possibility. My current levels are 1.25 MeB12, 500mcg Folate and only 10 mg of r-5-p Riboflavin in 1/2 of a Seeking Health B-Minus.

I've intentionally kept the B2 low, even though I know I could use more because I don't want to drive the folate, I want to first control the MeB12, which is the most important for me and the order my body seems to adjust to most easily. One other thought is whether you're taking any zinc, which I know is a cofactor for BHMT. I take at least 12 mg/day of pincolinate.

These are the issues that would mean something in my body...

Good luck with yours!

 

[juniemarie]

@Kathevans thanks for answering it gets lonely out here when one is not feeling well and searching for answers!
On my recent Nutreval test my zinc was actually quite high….a bit above the highest end of reference range.
Yes 18mcg Did not know that about the b2 driving a need for folate……..so I guess I could either stop the B2 as I get some in my B complex and see if that helps or keep it in and increase my folate a bit.
Or I could drop the B2 and the multi B and just try and get the balance between the folate and MB12 right before moving on and adding more stuff in
Well according to my genetics I am only +/- MTFHR. but MTRR is +/+ which indicates a higher need for MB12

 

[Kathevans]

Yes, there are always too many variables! But I took the Nature Made B complex which has very low and basic (that is to say, not active cofactors) forms of the Bs as I was just beginning the methylating. But you can see I'm still very new to it and still experimenting, myself. I did switch to 1/2 Seeking Health's B-Minus once a day to try to keep my methyl donors separate. But then, I have questions about that, too.

If it isn't one thing, it's another...

 

[juniemarie]

@Kathevans
Today I am not going to take the b complex or the extra B2 FMN and see what happens. Caledonia sent me some articles by Ben Lynch, the methylation guru and they might shed some light.
Do you happen to have a clue what Fred means by methyl trapping? I wonder if thats what is happening. What I am trying to figure out if the symptoms are coming from not enough folate in relation to the amount of B12 or my body is just reacting to the introduction of folate period no matter what the amount.
My ratio now is 800 mcg Mfolate to 2.5 mg MB12
I have taken both of them today and so far no side effects like I had yesterday If I don't get any by tonight then I will assume its the B complex or the extra B2
The other thing I am do differently today is instead of taking the Mfolate sublingually I just took it by mouth…..it may have more impact doing the sublingual route.
Yes you are so right …"if it isn't one thing its the other"……..or its the same darn thing over and over and over

 

[Kathevans]

I haven't ever focussed on methyl traps, though I'm thinking it has to do with having big roadblocks in the methylation cycle itself. My issues have always been about the ratio of folate to meb12, which can cause a paradoxical folate insufficiency if you don't have enough meb12 in the cells to 'receive' the folate (ie, I was taking lots of folate, but no meb12 and this caused all sorts of pain issues), or a simple folate insufficiency (whereby I'm taking enough meb12 to accomodate the folate I take, but my body still wants more, so I have to first increase my level of meb12).

Titrating up one day with the meb12, a day or two or three later, the folate and so on.

It's getting easier. I recognize the symptoms each time I increase that mean my body still isn't satiated.

At this level, I know that another month will make a huge difference; and given how long I've been suffering, that doesn't sound all that long. I'm just trying to stay balanced on that wobble board and not sway too far in one direction or the other!

btw, I keep an excell sheet with each day itemized as to supplements, reactions/symptoms and in particular, my sleep pattern, since that has been one of my worst symptoms. It really helps, especially when I looked back over it in the early days. It was only then that I could begin to see the patterns that are so obvious now.

 

[juniemarie]

@Kathevans what kind of reactions do you get when your out of balance between the two. You mentioned pain but are you able to distinguish between a symptom thats telling you you need more Mfolate and a symptom thats telling you you need to increase MB12?

 

[Kathevans]

@juniemarie Because of the folate block (which is because of my snps), I've always started with the MeB12 and then listened to my body. Usually within a few hours or so, I begin to experience some of the symptoms from Freddd's list that indicate the need for more folate which for me include IBS, runny nose, heart irregularities--usually just pvcs--and usually later in the day, rashiness on my face, increased pain in my muscles, particularly upper back.

At this point, I don't take either again later in the day because of sleep issues, so i have to put off tampering until at least the next day. But, the raciness I feel when my body isn't quite ready to handle more B-12 is something I have to be on the lookout for and just be willing to SLOW DOWN.

The methylation causes healing and probably detox, my eyes get watery, I feel over-stimulated. I may need to take another look at the cofactors, be more methodical. I really can't push very much without going over the ledge. Learning to recognize the signs when you are at low doses is a good thing; you'll carry it with you as you ramp up.

 

[juniemarie]

@Kathevans Well Ive been tinkering away here. I took another look at my Nutreval test, I see something different each time I look at it as its a lot to digest but what I noticed is that it said my need for MB12 was moderate but my need for mfolate was high. I was just going by my SNPS and Genetics.

So far my horrible 4 yr symptom in my mouth is still being kept down, not completely gone but very much improved
I have not had my flu like symptoms which was a reaction to the addition of new methylation supps. and what caused me to post this thread initially.

Keeping my MB12 at 2.5 mg divided in 2 doses and have ramped up my methylfolate to 1,200 mcg divided into 3 doses.

Fingers crossed, but I think I am seeing improvement so I will just hold the line and see what happens……see if my body starts to tell me it needs something.

Putting the Bcomplex and the sublingual FMN(b6) on the back burner until Im sure I have found and adjusted to my correct doses.

Watching for any signs of needing more potassium, but so far so good.

 

[Kathevans]

Good for you, @juniemarie. Because your homozygous snps are those dealing with MeB12, it makes sense that you keep that supp higher than the Folate. It looks like you're making good progress.

The NutrEval test is a terrific resource to study and refer to for guidance. I also found the Oat Test very useful.

As to symptoms, well, your list looks very familiar to me...here's hoping each begins to resolve with more nudging...

Right now I want to get to the point of being able to take the B12 and folate in the afternoon and not have it affect my sleep. That will feel like real progress!