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Mutaflor versus chelation

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Tuskentank, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. Tuskentank

    Tuskentank

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    Hi, I have something of a dilemma. I've been chelating metals having discovered that I am very toxic. I believe I have reduced the lead burden in my brain, but am now looking at Mercury in there. I can feel the crap moving in there as I chelate.

    Thing is, I have had an ongoing battle with constipation, yeast, and SIBO, but can go every morning quite well with double RDA magnesium and keeping my potassium levels up. Methylation helps detox as well. But I suffer from burning in my bowels and lots of mucus and it is unpleasant to say the least.

    I started Mutaflor and it was amazing. Slept through the night, ringing in my ears subsided, morning toilet trip was perfect and then some. But then came the catch...

    Titanium dioxide.This is a filler used in Mutaflor capsules, which I cannot avoid if I want to take the probiotic (cannot tolerate any others nor liquid due to SIBO). In chelation we are told to avoid the source of the metals, but taking Mutaflor is wilfully ingesting a toxic metal.

    I'm curious to know if anyone is taking this probiotic and chelating? I'm also taking Allimed for suspected lymes disease and just had an infected root canal extracted. Complex issues, as the sulphur in the Allimed and its antibiotic properties help with my other issues, but they are killing any e coli I have.

    I'm thinking Mutaflor might restore my detox capabilities, but also wondering about ingesting a toxic metal whilst chelating. Any advice greatly appreciated, folks.
     
  2. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I've done a lot of chelation and taken probiotics but Mutaflor has never been prescribed by my doctors.

    Candida can maje it difficult to detoxify..years ago, I found in had mercury toxicity and candida, my doctor put me on an anti-Candida diet (no sugar, grains, dairy, fruit, starchy vegetables, mushrooms, or fermented anything), along with a 6 week rotstuon of Nystatin and Diflucan. I was strict with the diet and best the candida.

    Then I started probioticd and butyrate. My favorite over the years has been Xymogen ProBioMax 100. And if I were doing it today, I'd add Thorne FiberMend or Klaire Labs galactooligosaccarides product to feed the good bacteria.

    Then she started me on a DMSA chelation protocol with methylation nutrients for support. B6, B1, molybdenum can help with sulfur.

    I hope you have the help of a good functional medicine practitioner. Sounds like you have a lot of issues that could be helped with expert guidance.
     
    bertiedog likes this.
  3. BadBadBear

    BadBadBear Senior Member

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    If you can make your own yogurt, you can reculture mutaflor. I think there are directions for it on Myhill's site (I saw it recently but cannot remember where). If you go that route, you could use a good organic whole milk or even raw goat milk and make a very high quality probiotic yogurt w/o the titanium dioxide. I have thought about trying this route myself using my instant pot. :)
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  4. Tuskentank

    Tuskentank

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    @Learner1, we don't have anyone competent in Northern Ireland. I'm on my own with this unfortunately.

    @BadBadBear, if I thought the Mutaflor could work for me in a yoghurt I would take it that way gladly but Symbioflor liquid made my SIBO worse. Its the hard capsule that means it gets past the small intestine, but the same capsule that contains the toxins.

    I am chelating using HMD Heavy Metal Detox, and I'm on a high sulphur diet: broccoli and sprouts, onions, lots of turmeric. I take selenomethione and berberine HCL to boost neurotrophils and white blood cell count. I'm getting metals out a little at a time, but it's tough going. I'm functional enough to put a brave face on for the kids.

    Haven't a clue about chelation, other than to go carefully. @Learner1 I read that you had done a more intensive chelation protocol. DMSA I'm fearing would set my yeast issues off. I have IMD Heavy Metal Detox by Quicksilver, was going to try that and stick with the Allimed until my metals are down a bit.

    Is there anyone comes recommended for chelation in the UK?
     
    BadBadBear likes this.
  5. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I have heard of a clinic near London that does IV chelation.

    It likely would be wise to clean up your gut more before embarking on a chelation protocol or you run the risk of mobilized toxins being reabsorbed. I did the DNSA after my gut was cleaned up.

    Chelation got a bad rap early on as people didn't know to replenish needed minerals and support with B vitamins and amino for glutathione production. You might ask the Quicksilver folks what they recommend.
     
  6. Tuskentank

    Tuskentank

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    There's the irony, Learner1, my gut improved taking coriander/cilantro, a chelator/mobiliser of metals. I think the yeast is there because I have a high metal burden.

    I replace my minerals, take 4 x 1500mcg Methyl b12 and 4 x 1000mcg methylfolate also 2 x 1500mcg adenosylcobalmin.

    Did you take high dose selenium?

    I thought IV chelation was dangerous ?

    Thanks for the pointers, I appreciate all advice.
     
  7. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Candida will feed on mercury. Getting rid of it not only reduces the slime coating your gut lining, but encourages the mercury to exit your body rather than staying around to be candida food.

    I get a little selenium, which is needed for glutathione production and thyroid.

    IV chelation is the fastest way to rid the body of toxins. It can be done quite safely by reputable, well trained doctors who are aware of the dynamics and can support the patient as needed. It should be done consistently over a period of time. I used it to get rid of a high load of platinum from my chemotherapy. However, its expensive, time consuming, and not a do-it-yourself project.

    Dry saunas, if you can tolerate them, are an excellent way to get rid of toxins. Studies have shown them to be quite effective. Drinking a lot of water is essential, of course.

    I'm just speaking from my experience. I do not pretend to be a doctor and recommend working with someone knowledgeable if you can.

    Best of luck!
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
    Tuskentank likes this.
  8. There are many ways to chelate. There is a lot of confusing info out there, and it's difficult to sort through it all. I have tried 2 other protocols from naturopaths and didn't do well. Since then, I have done a lot of research and have settled on the Cutler protocol; I'm doing ok with that.

    If you look at it from the perspective of the Cutler protocol, it's possible you're just spinning your wheels with the HMD, which contains cilantro and chlorella.

    I haven't tried chlorella, but cilantro has produced many negative symptoms for up to a month, both physical and mental. This was just eating some in food, not taking any kind of concentrated detox product.

    Here is a page of things people have tried that made them worse.
    http://cutlersuccessstories.weebly.com/what-not-to-do.html

    In his hair interpretation book, Cutler says titanium dioxide (TD) as a pigment you would put on your skin is very poorly absorbed.

    The admin of the Cutler Yahoo group says he isn't that worried about TD in supplements, but tries to avoid it.

    If it was me, and the Mutaflor was going to be used for a limited time, (like months but not years) I would do it. The TD is fairly far down on the list of ingredients so there is not a ton of it in there, and you are chelating, so any TD should come out eventually.
     
    Tuskentank and Learner1 like this.
  9. Tuskentank

    Tuskentank

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    Hi @caledonia I think combining methylation with the HMD is what makes it move through my brain. I can feel it passing through the same point every time. I have a good day then a bad day, but I think the Mutaflor is worth the risk. I took pure coriander on my food and this seemed to help clean up my digestion. I'm fairly sure that the metals are mobilised into my gut, which is why the candida grows again.

    How long have you been chelating? I've heard the Cutler protocol is sore on the adrenals, and I don't tolerate glandulars, but I take a lot of pantethine, Vit C, b vitamins, and the core four.
     
  10. Tuskentank

    Tuskentank

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    Sorry I should add that I chose HMD because it had a double blind, placebo controlled trial done on it of over 350 people.

    I'm not sure when chelating is going well or not. I feel good today, but tomorrow I could feel like crap, seems to repeat in cycles. Can you give me any perspective on your symptoms whilst chelating, @caledonia ?
     
  11. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I've had acute intestinal discomfort, kidney pain (and lower GFR), and weird headache of my body has mobilized too much of something it couldn't get rid of. Sulfur gas, too.

    Taking a couple of capsules of activated charcoal away from other supplements has worked for me as s short term fix, along with taking 3g a day of a high quality curcumin.

    Increasing B1 and molybdenum can improve the transsulfuration pathway to brlptemove the sulfur.

    Quicksilver has an excellent but expensive Universal Binder that might be helpful, too.
     
    Tuskentank likes this.
  12. Tuskentank

    Tuskentank

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    Hi @Learner1,

    I have the Quicksilver binder, not used it yet, and am on high dose thiamine and molybdenum. Thanks for your insight into the symptoms. I also take liposomal curcumin. Its the feeling in my head is so weird. I was exposed to a lot of mercury when taking diluted HCL, and it dissolved my mercury fillings. The fumes went into the front part of my brain. I get the pulling sensation here when I chelate. I was one of those people who cycled everywhere in an industrial town, loading my system with toxins.

    Time to keep on keeping on, beat this thing.
     
  13. I chelated for 7 months last year, but have been on a long break for various reasons. I'm planning on getting back into it soon.

    I don't tolerate any of the traditional supplements for adrenals either. I've been going low and slow and only raising the dose if I tolerate it. I started with 1.5mg of ALA and worked up to 5mg.
     
  14. I've been doing ALA only so far. Note that on the Cutler protocol, you dose within the half life of the chelator, otherwise you will get mercury redistribution, which is not good. So that means dosing every few hours both day and night for a few days (called a "round"). Then taking a break for several days, then repeating a round.

    Anyway, when I'm on a round, I feel some nice normal type energy. Since ALA is a co-factor for the citric acid energy cycle, that makes sense. As I'm a fast metabolizer, I have to dose every 2 hours, that means waking up every 2 hours at night. If I wait longer between doses, I get redistribution symptoms (feel a lot worse).

    As I know now, I also have sleep apnea and was waking up at least 20 times per hour. So that made the night time dosing difficult. I would feel extra sleep deprived, but the next day after the round have some great sleep. But it would still take a few more days to feel rested again.

    It should go a lot better now that I'm getting treatment for the apnea.

    I've also felt pulling type sensations in my jaw (I did used to have mercury fillings), and also brief head pains.

    I've had a couple of interesting gains - my balance is better, like when putting on a pair of pants, I used to have trouble balancing on one leg - now it's barely an issue. Also when I take a shower, I used to be wiped out and have to lay down for an hour afterwards. Now I just have to sit for awhile.
     
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  15. Tuskentank

    Tuskentank

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    Thanks for the insight, @caledonia. That pulling feeling is weird, but hopefully a sign things are working.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  16. tiredowl

    tiredowl

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    I have some Mutaflor suspensions that I got from Germany, but I'm really unsure on how to take these?
    It says to take one suspension for 5 days? They also smell really foul. Do I just put some in water and drink?
     
  17. Tuskentank

    Tuskentank

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    If you can tolerate MSM, it's a substrate for Ecoli. But be really careful if you are low on minerals or if you have toxic metals on board. It depletes potassium and zinc, least it did in my case, I'm still recovering from it. Mutaflor also produce serotonin and methylfolate so it will help with detox and digestion. I needed B12 and extra potassium though to offset the increased methylfolate. But I'm very heavy metal toxic, so YMMV.
     
    sb4 likes this.
  18. bjl218

    bjl218 Brian Levine

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    Hi @Tuskentank, what metals were you high in and what test did you do to determine that. I'm now doing DMSA chelation (not Cutler) and I completely understand the "pulling" sensation. Feels like something is tugging on my brain.
     
  19. tiredowl

    tiredowl

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    Oh I already started. :( I have some potassium supplements coming in the mail though.
    How does it increase serotonin? That's not good in my case, because I have a tendency towards high serotonin.
    Do you still take it ?
     
  20. Tuskentank

    Tuskentank

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    Yeah, I still take Mutaflor. E coli produce serotonin, bacillus produce dopamine, bifido produce GABA. Think it was on a post on the Evolutionary Psychiatrist. I take Mutaflor, but not MSM.
     
    ebethc likes this.

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