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MRC awards £662 000 to St George's London to prove how ME is a functional disorder

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Countrygirl, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    Dr JJ Edwards of St Georges has been awarded £662 000 to examine how ME can be viewed as a 'functional disorder'.

    http://gtr.rcuk.ac.uk/projects?ref=MR/M02363X/1

     
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  2. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    Aagh! I think the above is the resarch that the minister referred to in the PACE debate yesterday!

    Can anyone confirm this?
     
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  3. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    Talking to myself here, but yes, it is the study that we were told yesterday we should be grateful for! :cry:
     
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  4. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    oh my, will they never give up :depressed:

    maybe they could take a look at the results of the research on cytokines....
    or a ton of other research.... same here in Holland, I just heard a bit of radio ( which was very good btw) wherein Bleijenberg again says that people do not want GET because they do not want to lose the stability they have, he thinks that weird ( or something like that...)

    :bang-head:
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  5. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    This is the reference:

     
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  6. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    Lose the stability????? :confused:

    Do you know what he means by that @Sundancer ?
     
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  7. Frenchguy

    Frenchguy

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    Sadness..
     
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  8. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    I feel I need to declare that I'm not a CBT/GET supporter, but essentially the hypothesis of a "sickness response" gone wrong in the brain is quite similar as to the hypothesis of Gerard Pereira that was recently featured on Health Rising. According to Pereira, resetting the HPA axis by a drug that affects the stress receptors in the brain could potentially reverse CFS/ME quickly. So the hypothesis in both research approaches might be sound.
     
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  9. Tally

    Tally Senior Member

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    When I saw the words "functional disorder" I feared the worst. But it seems (if we ignore some remarks that are clearly uninformed) that it's not so bad. This sounds like they're researching it as a physical illness? If these structures in the brain are sending the wrong signals, isn't that the proof that it's NOT a functional disorder? Or am I being too lenient?
     
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  10. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    just like doctors for decades demanded that tuberculosis was caused by masturbation

    Same bullshit!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2018
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  11. alkt

    alkt Senior Member

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    sounds like weasley words to dress up some more psych bs into actual science .more money wasted.
     
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  12. neweimear

    neweimear Senior Member

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    Couldn't agree more, it's very sad that this keeps going....
     
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  13. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    These are the researchers:

    Mark John James Edwards (Principal Investigator)
    Neil Andrew Harrison (Co-Investigator)
    James Morvan Kilner (Co-Investigator)
     
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  14. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

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    Depends on what is perpetuating the problem with the HPA axis and if the HPA axis is the sole problem (it could very well be secondary to something else). If faulty thought processes aren't perpetuating the disease then their hypothesis is trash.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
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  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    The problem with functional claims is that measurable organic damage is ignored. The hypothesis takes precedence over evidence. Now its laudable that they are looking for organic causation. However I would argue that if they do prove organic causation then its no longer a mental disorder. Its an own goal. What I hope I do not see, but I expect my hope will be dashed, is an organic link which will be claimed is evidence of mental causation.

    I would like to add one consideration though. It would be ironic if biomedical researchers were getting funding under functional claims. It would be using psychobabble funds to disprove psychobabble. However this claim leads me to expect this is not the case here -

     
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  16. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Quite so. They have cake, and want to eat it ... ummm, rather, they have biology and want to claim its psychology.
     
  17. Carl

    Carl Senior Member

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    It's an infection by one of potentially hundreds of micro-organisms of the stomach! All highly resistant which no antibiotics can destroy. Helicobacter, the only recognised pathogenic stomach bacteria, is not alone and does not explain all the symptoms of the stomach such as unexplained cancer and stomach disturbances. Unfortunately all research is looking in the wrong place and failing to isolate the actual causative location.

    BTW I worked this out in Jan 2014 and I have been looking for ways to destroy them. I have made some progress but because the causative micro-organisms can be so large in number it makes it difficult to find suitable efflux pump inhibitors and other things which can help beat them. Quorum Sensing Inhibitors I have covered and things to affect cell membranes to increase susceptibility to antimicrobials but there are still a few things that I have not yet worked out. I do not want to give them any further chance to adapt. I just want them destroyed and wiped out of existence.

    These micro-organisms have developed antibiotic resistance like all have done due to people flushing antibiotic substances such as hand washes etc etc and not just pharma antibiotics which leave the body in urine etc and enter the environment to affect bacteria.

    The psychology crowd have their fingers in everything. Foolishly thinking that the mind can influence things which the human body cannot affect such as biofilm protected infections.

    I think that they are even involved with the ideas about Leaky Gut and that various useless substances such as glutamine can solve leaky gut. They cannot because Leaky Gut is caused by an infection which prevents healing. It is only by destroying the infection that Leaky Gut is solved. No Glutamine is needed to solve that because the body heals within minutes of the infection being destroyed. I have done this partly so I know it to be true. The big one, which affects CFS I have not yet beat so the real healing cannot take place.
     
  18. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    The study abstract leaves one wanting in terms of methodology. How exactly do they expect to show "sickness behavior" in the brain? Studies using fMRI are notoriously inept and un-replicable. It would be good to know what controls they plan on using, including what other patient groups for comparison.

    If they want to look at ME/CFS brains, they may find differences...but proving causation with current technology is absurd. We simply do not know enough.
     
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  19. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    If they use cutting edge methods they will indeed find differences. Congratulations to them on a biomedical confirmation if this happens! Yet this does not prove causation. I suspect, for example, that fasciculus enlargement in ME is a consequence of ME, not a cause, though if it can be shown in patients before they get overt symptoms then the door is open again. This causation-association issue is horribly abused by some researchers. We will not know if this is the case here until we can read the final paper and additional documentation.

    The pattern I am seeing is they see some association between a disease and something, such as cortisol. Now in cortisol we have prime examples of high and low states, in Cushing's and Addison's. I would suggest that if its causal in a direct sense then the same problems will be seen in one of those two diseases, depending on whether or not its high or low cortisol. Further, with respect to high cortisol they are probably getting the causation backward. Diseases and disease symptoms are drivers of cortisol. So its high. Disease causes increased cortisol in many cases. If the disease impacts the brain or long term cortisol synthesis, then it might be low. The way to track this is a prospective study, in which they show measurable cortisol changes before measurable disease changes. That at least allows for possible causation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
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  20. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    the interview has been transcripted, It's good really, you can find it here
    https://translate.google.com/transl...,15700124,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700201


    and this is what Belijenberg said ( in a bit of context)
     
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