Methylcobalamin Inhalation Therapy

[ahmo]

From another thread:

You can get pure Methylcobalamin from Oxford Biosciences.

It comes in 20 mg powdered form which you then mix with 10 ml of Saline. I draw this up in 1ml Insulin syringes and inject Subcutaneously. Oxford Biosciences are recommended by the Pernicious Anaemia society of GB (UK).

http://oxfordbiosciences.com/vitamin-b12/

 

[joe12]

This is odd, wouldn't the very delicate b12 be broken down immediately at those temperatures?

 

[AlmostEasy]

Hello all,

I just wanted to report in and say that I am having a lot of success with this method. I haven't reached the point where things are ideal in regards to my methylcobalamin source/amount but it has been a great insight into what is possible for me with higher levels of it.

I have the V2 Series 3, using bulk PG/VG, and Methyl B12 Mega Drops (non-ideal for sure). I have not ever used or been around any other type of vaporizers so I can't comment on it's quality that accurately but from my experience with it alone it has been an incredibly solid device. The draw is definitely hard and it could possibly be a deal breaker for some but it's very rugged so far and performs well consistently (note I've only owned it for about 9 days but have used it heavily in that time). I've learned how to work around the draw, I just can't draw at my pace, I have to kind of draw at its pace.

I fill the tank half way with PG then add in about 8-10 drops mb12 (~8-10mg) and then a little VG to smooth out the smoking experience. I bought some flavored juice if I feel like using some. Not necessary.

It has shown me that whatever I was doing with sublinguals was getting me substantially less then I require with my personal biochemistry. I wasn't even coming close to saturation previously. It has also shown me that mb12 is completely dependent upon methylfolate, which I require a great deal of, about 30 mg daily. Whenever folate levels drop off not only does more mb12 not do anything it completely falls off with the folate.

The amount I'm using requires long vaping sessions to experience the effects and I'm not sure I can even vape fast enough to hit a saturation point so my concentration seems to be insufficient. I'd like to get 20-30mg in my tank and see how that goes. Ideally it would be nice to vape for 10 minutes and be saturated for a good 6-8 hours until more is needed. With what I've experienced so far it seems that would be fairly viable with that amount.

An interesting thing to note is that the additives are certainly having an effect on me as well. I looked them up briefly and they appear fine to inhale (I don't plan on using this long term, and I was pretty excited to try so i went with it - probably should not do this at home if avoidable). As I vape the contents of the tank go from a jolly-rancher red type color and clarity to a dark blood red. Continuing to vape this concentrate of who knows what does lead to brain fog. I was adding more PG to this concentrate to squeeze out the remaining bits of mb12 but I've discontinued doing this.

So moving forward I might trail this powder:
http://www.superiornutraceuticals.c...en=PROD&Store_Code=SN&Product_Code=MethlyB12P

Others have used it with mediocre success but with how much better this is for me than sublinguals I'm willing to give it a shot. Ideally I would find a 5 star quality methylcobalamin at a near affordable price (who doesn't want to find this?). If this powder fails I will probably move on to B12 Oil, but I don't see it failing completely. Even this small amount from my mb12 drops is doing quite a lot.

It hasn't been a perfect experience and I think I have a lot more going on aside from just mb12 deficiency (ammonia / SOD / ON/ONOO) but this area of my treatment may very well be nearing an end point. Things such as eating throw everything off, any lack of sleep, and even just randomly waking up feeling like crap but when the planets are aligned and everything else is taken care of this really makes me feel like I could some day get this thing into a genuine remission.

And personally I just enjoy this delivery method, I just love the fact that I can pick it up anywhere, at any time and saturate myself if I feel I need it. No injections, no annoying sublinguals in your mouth for hours a day, and no oil to micro manage all day avoiding smearing / wiping off.

Good luck.

 

[ahmo]

It has shown me that whatever I was doing with sublinguals was getting me substantially less then I require with my personal biochemistry. I wasn't even coming close to saturation previously. It has also shown me that mb12 is completely dependent upon methylfolate, which I require a great deal of, about 30 mg daily. Whenever folate levels drop off not only does more mb12 not do anything it completely falls off with the folate.

Congrats. please let us know how you find this powder....Whops, here's what it says about the powder:

Due to the purity it would be very difficult to attempt to dose this in 1000mcg or even 5000mcg increments without highly specialized equipment.

 

[HEAL]

I emailed the company Oxford Biosciences posted by GoodVibesOnly and reposted by ahmo.

I wrote:

Can the B12 you sell be nebulised? Such as in this device:

Respironics Innospire Essence Nebuliser





Respironics Innospire Essence Nebuliser
The Innospire Essence gives fast and reliable delivery of most of the commonly prescribed solutions for respiratory conditions and the compact design of the Innospi...

Do you also sell Adenosylcobalamin?

And their reply:


Methylcobalamin is an extremely large molecule with a molar mass of 1344.40 g/mol so it would be very unwise to introduce this into delicate lung tissue.

No we don't sell any other form of B12 since we believe that methylcobalamin is the easiest to assimilate and addresses a variety of B12 deficiency problems, including
providing the methyl group that couples to carbon monoxide (derived from CO2) to afford acetyl-CoA, and methylcobalamin is required for the remethylation pathway to regain its normal activity thus bringing homocysteine down to reasonable levels.


I really would like to try using a nebuliser but I am now cautious from their reply.

They recommend self administered subcutaneous injections.

Awaiting comments!

Thanks

 

[skwag]

Methylcobalamin is an extremely large molecule with a molar mass of 1344.40 g/mol so it would be very unwise to introduce this into delicate lung tissue.

I think this is just the company covering their ass.

 

[garyfritz]

And personally I just enjoy this delivery method, I just love the fact that I can pick it up anywhere, at any time and saturate myself if I feel I need it. No injections, no annoying sublinguals in your mouth for hours a day, and no oil to micro manage all day avoiding smearing / wiping off.

That's fine that you enjoy vaping, but I don't like the idea of putting that stuff in my lungs. The methylcobalamin is iffy, according to the people who sell it, and the vaping additives are IMHO questionable.

I find the oil to be a great solution. There is no micromanaging all day, or smearing and wiping. Most people just use one dose a day. I have a very high need for B12 so I apply oil once in the morning, and once at bedtime. That does a great job of keeping my B12 levels high all day long. If for some reason I need a bit more, it's easy to take another dose. I just rub it into my skin and go on with my day. No dealing with vapes, mixing the vape solution, introducing possibly-risky compounds into my lungs, or anything like that. The only issue with the oil is that it can be a bit messy, and can rub off a bit onto white sheets or clothes if you're not careful. (But it washes out easily.) Small price to pay in my opinion.

 

[AlmostEasy]

That's fine that you enjoy vaping, but I don't like the idea of putting that stuff in my lungs. The methylcobalamin is iffy, according to the people who sell it, and the vaping additives are IMHO questionable.

I find the oil to be a great solution. There is no micromanaging all day, or smearing and wiping. Most people just use one dose a day. I have a very high need for B12 so I apply oil once in the morning, and once at bedtime. That does a great job of keeping my B12 levels high all day long. If for some reason I need a bit more, it's easy to take another dose. I just rub it into my skin and go on with my day. No dealing with vapes, mixing the vape solution, introducing possibly-risky compounds into my lungs, or anything like that. The only issue with the oil is that it can be a bit messy, and can rub off a bit onto white sheets or clothes if you're not careful. (But it washes out easily.) Small price to pay in my opinion.

Ok, cool? It's bizarre you come at me like l personally addressed you and your method and said it is lesser than mine and that it is invalid because of what I'm doing. You weren't even referenced in my post. I'm doing better, you're doing better, I do it a different way and the world is still spinning. We can each do what we want with the information available to us can we not? Notice "personally, I".

Also, some people are needing 20 mg + a day mb12 (serum levels) and doing that with the B12 Oils is just absurd, it's just not a good method, we're looking into bulk powder, some of which we've finally found (not the junk I referenced in my previous post), and plan to it vape it for 10-20 mg / day, significantly cheaper. If we do as another member did and purchase bulk from China which appears to be pharmaceutical grade (confirming here soon) it'll cost us 70 cents a day for 20 mg / day. That's $21 a month. If you require 10 mg that's half as much. The only issue will be doing a group buy which is a hassle but once we have it it'll last a while. Vaping 1 ml with 20 mg mb12 in it over the course of the day is very easy to do. We'll probably move over to injections as a more permanent solution but for now this is working better than anything I've tried and will allow us to always have mb12 PRN should we be away unexpected or something like that arises. We'll have another tool at our disposal to keep us feeling good.

You also say there is no smearing or wiping, then go on to say in the same paragraph it's a bit messy and can rub off onto sheets and clothing? That's why I didn't like it, it got all over my clothing, it was always a mess. Is that a deal breaker if it works for you? Obviously not, we're not in a very ideal situation. If I needed less and I had the cash for B12 Oils would I do it? Possibly, I'd probably compare the two and see what worked best and go with that one, I'm not married to any idea, I'm married to feeling better so whatever does that best for me is the direction I'm going. Sublinguals were not effective for me. Transdermal was more effective but not enough. Vaping for me has been better than either by far. So maybe try not to bash someone else's method just because you prefer a different one, maybe someone out there already has a vaporizer and would like to use it to escape the mental hell it helped me out of. If they don't like the safety profile of vaping can they still use B12 Oils? Whoa, yes they actually can do that. Crazy, right?

Is it a permanent solution? For me, probably not. When we (another member and I) started this endeavor we weren't aware of the China source and people successfully making their own injectibles (obviously not for everyone, or even for the very few - I have several science degrees and work in the medical field, I've done this all before many times) but for now it is working well and will continue to do so until we can confirm the legitimacy of the powder or find a different one locally (IE in America), we're exploring a few options. For someone not versed in science vaping isn't that hard to do. This isn't a perfect world and mainstream medical science is way behind what we're doing, there's no one really out there to help us so if this pulls someone out of the hell it does me then I think it is worth trying.

 

[skwag]

@AlmostEasy ,

Please keep us updated on any good sources of B12 powder.

 

[AlmostEasy]

Congrats. please let us know how you find this powder....Whops, here's what it says about the powder:

I found it to be fairly low quality. Here has been my experience:

Methyl B12 Mega Drops from Holistic Heal - Most potent mb12 I've used. Additives cause brain fog and seem to cause nausea and feeling of being almost sick upon waking (not always). Seems to randomly cause fatigue as well. I would not suggest using this, I only did because it was what I had at the time and it did have it's side effects but it also worked very well for getting mb12 in my system

Bio-Alternatives - Potent, I think. It's hard to vape enough since it's so dilute to genuinely compare but it did pair well piggy backed onto the Methyl B12 Drops. I'd saturate myself with those then when the side effects faded using this on top of that gave me the best feeling I've had yet.

Neutraceuticals - Slightly below mediocre. 10 mg vaped does fairly little, I don't really break through on this stuff. It DOES make me feel better and I'm continuing to use it as I don't have any other option yet but it doesn't give me that pristine mental precision and clarity that the others do, though with this I don't really get any side effects. If I had used the same amount of Methyl B12 Drops as the amount of this I use I feel I would probably reach a new level but the additives are kind of dose limiting.

So clearly none of them are that great of a solution. I'm still searching for a better alternatives, I have a few leads I'm chasing down and if I figure anything out I'll post an update.

@AlmostEasy ,

Please keep us updated on any good sources of B12 powder.

Will do I had you in mind for when I did!

Cheers

 

[garyfritz]

Ok, cool? It's bizarre you come at me like l personally addressed you and your method and said it is lesser than mine and that it is invalid because of what I'm doing.

I'm just joining the discussion and sharing my experiences. No attack or slight intended.

I've used vapes a few times (I live in Colorado ) and I think they're probably fine for occasional use, but personally I'm not comfortable with doing it multiple times every day. If it works for you, more power to ya.

Also, some people are needing 20 mg + a day mb12 (serum levels) and doing that with the B12 Oils is just absurd,

It would be possible, but you're right, that's a bit much. Each shot of oil has the equivalent of about 1.5mg adeno and 0.5mg methyl injected. I currently take 3 (or more) doses a day, so I'm getting the equivalent of 6+ mg/day injected (total). 3x that many doses would be a PITA, and very expensive.

For people needing in the 2-10mg range, though, I think it's a very viable solution. It's worked very well for me.

we're looking into bulk powder, some of which we've finally found (not the junk I referenced in my previous post), and plan to it vape it for 10-20 mg / day, significantly cheaper. If we do as another member did and purchase bulk from China which appears to be pharmaceutical grade (confirming here soon) it'll cost us 70 cents a day for 20 mg / day. That's $21 a month. If you require 10 mg that's half as much.

That's a mighty good price -- 1/3 of what I'm spending on oil, for over 3x the dose. As I said, I *personally* would rather not vape it. But you could also mix the powder into a cream and roll-your-own transdermal. Probably wouldn't be as effective as vaping, but if it's that cheap, who cares?

Do you know if that supplier also has adenosylB12? I seem to need both adnosyl and methyl.

You also say there is no smearing or wiping, then go on to say in the same paragraph it's a bit messy and can rub off onto sheets and clothing?

Occasionally I'll notice a faint pink area on white sheets, that sort of thing. Mostly just if I wake up agitated in the night and have to apply some oil and immediately go back to bed. That's not as bad as when I was using sublinguals and I would fall asleep and drool red on the pillow. I agree it's not ideal, but for *me personally* I'll take that over vaping.

Sublinguals were not effective for me. Transdermal was more effective but not enough. Vaping for me has been better than either by far.

I sure understand the desire for effective results. Sublinguals didn't work very well for me either, which was why I went to the oil. If transdermal didn't do the trick for me, I would be looking for another solution too. Glad you found something that works for you.

 

[AlmostEasy]

@garyfritz I'm not sure if they sell adenosylcobalamin. I would think that it's probable, it's just alibaba, I can get you the specific vendor if you'd like to inquire.

The DIY method was what I was doing with the Holistic Heal Methyl Drops but it just kind of pooped out after a while, I don't know why. I alternated cream / alcohols and locations. It was strong but probably 1/20th as consistent as vaping. Sometimes it would just not do anything sometimes it would kick hard and eventually it just quit working. I even tried with DMSO. I did have some success using Tegaderms though to cover the oil should I want to ensure it wasn't going to get anywhere. It's used in the medical field to cover IV sites and prevent leakage should there be an issue with the site. Brilliant product. I had to use one every time since my mixture didn't sink in very well, would just rub off on my clothing. It would occasionally leak out the sides if it was humid and I had any sweat form, but for the most part it was pretty great.

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up too high for a good source but one of the members has been successfully using it for injections for quite a while (she is an experienced lab tech I believe was the trade so just to reiterate she has experience in the field of injections and sterility) now so it seems to check out at least to a certain extent if everything is still the same from the vendor. I do believe she had a CoA as well, but that is ofc trusting China and I have no clue what that means, but her success is promising.

As soon as I know anything I'll report back!

 

[burningfire]

Hey AlmostEasy. I believe you were looking for a supplier for Methylcobalamin powder.
I found a source from Ebay that sells Medical Grade Methylcobalamin powder from Italy that sells for $45 US plus shipping. The product is 1 gram and comes with a lab certificate. The seller also sells larger quantities. I think this form can be used for making it injectable, if you have lab skills. I'm going to make a purchase and see how it goes.

The link can be found here for 1 gram for $45: http://www.ebay.com/itm/QUALITY-MET...ERTIFIED-1g-/171584439083?hash=item27f33ac32b

The one for 10 grams costs about $350: http://www.ebay.com/itm/STRONG-METH...RTIFIED-10g-/181661463885?hash=item2a4bddf54d

 

[AlmostEasy]

Wow that is awesome, good find. Let me know how that goes, I might do that instead, but I'll probably contact them both to be safe

 

[HEAL]

Does anyone make Liposomal vitamin C here? I am using Chris' recipe:
http://www.qualityliposomalc.com/styled-3/index.html

But without an ultrasonic cleaner - still researching on the best one for my needs.

Maybe adding B12 powder to the liposomal C recipe may make the B12 as effective as transdermal B12?
Can anyone comment on how much I should maybe add, or take away ascorbic acid to compensate for the added B12?
I'm also assuming that repeated blending, and (when I get an ultrasonic cleaner) won't damage the B12.

How does transdermal B12 also compare with B12 subcutaneous injections in terms of the amount actually reaching the bloodstream?

Thanks

 

[ahmo]

@HEAL I had good luck getting Vit C in footbaths, if that interests you.

 

[HEAL]

I tried adding a vitamin c tablet for a foot bath but it made me tired...what do u think it cud have been due to?

What b complex does everyone on this forum use?

I'm currently using:
http://www.spectrum-best.com/b-complex-with-metafolin--intrinsic-factor.html

Along with up to 50mg B2 by thorne research or Swanson brand.

As well as a lot of b12 transdermal sprays.

I still have fatigue issues but they re significantly less.

I also take liposomal vitamin c, magnesium, ox bile, adrenal cortex, fish oil, curcumin...

Should i increase b12 or is it something else like not enough b complex or the ratio s aren't right?

Thanks

 

[ahmo]

Here's a thread on transdermal B12. It includes feedback on a commercial oil and attempts by some of us to make it DIY.

I tried adding a vitamin c tablet for a foot bath but it made me tired...what do u think it cud have been due to?

Don't know.

What b complex does everyone on this forum use?

Many different ones being used. I use a Swanson's active B comp, which I have to split into halves, a bit fiddly. Check Jarrow B right, don't know about it at present.

Should i increase b12 or is it something else like not enough b complex or the ratio s aren't right?

What's your experience? Symptoms?

 

[Davecr]

@burningfire
Did you manage to try the methyl off eBay yet ?
Looking at getting some and wondered if you had any results yet, would be looking at going the SC route myself.

Dave

 

[heyitisjustin]

I tried adding a vitamin c tablet for a foot bath but it made me tired...what do u think it cud have been due to?

What b complex does everyone on this forum use?

I'm currently using:
http://www.spectrum-best.com/b-complex-with-metafolin--intrinsic-factor.html

Along with up to 50mg B2 by thorne research or Swanson brand.

As well as a lot of b12 transdermal sprays.

I still have fatigue issues but they re significantly less.

I also take liposomal vitamin c, magnesium, ox bile, adrenal cortex, fish oil, curcumin...

Should i increase b12 or is it something else like not enough b complex or the ratio s aren't right?

Thanks

You can get a sonic cleaner for pretty cheap. I was using one for dental work and I think it ran like $30.
I am interested in whatever you hear about the b complex as I can't find a good one. Yours looked similar to the ones
usually listed here. I would think that it shouldn't have folic acid or niacin. Yours had 50mg niacin. I think I've seen complexes with 25mg niacin. If I can't do better I'll probably just go with the lowest niacin I can find