Methylation supplements treat insulin resistance

[telochian]

Wow

I had no idea inositol deficiency could problems of that degree.

I can't take alpha lipoic acid or any of those anti inflammatory type supplements like pine bark extract or grape seed extract. They are hypoglycemia in a bottle for me.

 

[Gondwanaland]

or any of those anti inflammatory type supplements like pine bark extract or grape seed extract. They are hypoglycemia in a bottle for me.

Same for me :thumbdown:

 

[picante]

(http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/2011/what-is-hypoglycemia/)

Vitamin B1 plays a role in the production of thyroxin, as does phenylalanine and tyrosine (the latter is the immediate forerunner of thyroxin).

That's new information to me!

 

[picante]

Izzy, when I went to the clinic today, I asked for a fasting insulin test. Since I wasn't fasting today, the PA ordered the A1C test. Vassopressin, too, at my request (anti-diuretic hormone). I guess I'll have to call her back after I get those results to request the fasting insulin. She said she may send me to an endocrinologist later.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@picante Even though it is said that the most important insulin value is the one at the 2nd hour after a glucose challenge, I have been finding that an elevated fasting insulin (anything above 10mU/L) is pretty spot on to predict an abnormal insulin response after carbohydrate ingestion. However, it could be below 10 while fasting and still have an abnormally high insulin response after the glucose challenge.

 

[Gondwanaland]

The supplement folic acid is a synthetic, inactive form that requires more methyl donors to be activated than food folate.

I must emend my OP here:
Inactive folic acid (just like food addictives like MSG et al. and excess carbohydrates), because it demands extra methyl donors, puts extra burden on B6 to convert homocysteine into methionine. A heavy demand of B6 will impair DAO activity, insulin sensitivity, anti-inflammatory action etc.

B6 has a complicated intricacy with other nutrients:

DAO = B6+Copper
Aminoacid breakdown to produce serotonin+dopamine = require B2 +Magnesium for neurotransmitter breakdown (B2 requires Manganese to function properly)
B6 is crucial in the sulfur metabolism, lymphocyte proliferation and immunity, hemoglobin synthesis
....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3779535/
Insulin resistance and dysregulation of tryptophan-kynurenine and kynurenine-nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide metabolic pathways

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/vitamin-B6
Function
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Tryptophan metabolism
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Nucleic acid synthesis
Deficiency
The RDA
Disease Prevention
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Cardiovascular disease
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My personal experience with B6:
-taken on its own at a daily dose lower than six milligrams of P5P caused me serotonin syndrome (due to +/+MAO-A) so it needs to be taken with B2. Nevertheless, it seems to have improved my digestion because my thyroid is clearly generating more heat from the food I eat.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@picante I have always found serum homocisteine the best inflammation marker which tells you what you need to change in your diet/supplementation.

 

[picante]

@picante I have always found serum homocisteine the best inflammation marker which tells you what you need to change in your diet/supplementation.

Mine was 7.2 umol/L [0-15]. That was July 2014, the only time I've had it tested. It was "plasma", though. Would it make a difference to test serum?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Mine was 7.2 umol/L [0-15]. That was July 2014, the only time I've had it tested. It was "plasma", though. Would it make a difference to test serum?

Nope, it's the same thing. Next look at lymphocyte count (available from a regular RBC/WBC count).

Since 2014 results are no longer valid, since they readily respond to supps/diet

In 2013-2014 I had between 10 and 15 blood tests done each year... In 2015 "only" 7, in 2016 only 2 so far, and perhaps 2 more at the end of the year. I have been studying myself and now I know how my body reacts to diet and supps.

 

[South]

fat (methyl donors)

@Gondwanaland Where did you read that fat is a methyl donor?

Choline (which isn't the same thing as fat) is in some foods that happen to be high in fat...but fat alone being a methyl donor?

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Gondwanaland Where did you read that fat is a methyl donor?

Choline (which isn't the same thing as fat) is in some foods that happen to be high in fat...but fat alone being a methyl donor?

I am sorry for being inespecific, you are right, it is the high choline content in fat that makes it a good methyl donor.

 

[picante]

Next look at lymphocyte count (available from a regular RBC/WBC count).

In 2014 (August):
Lymphocytes (absolute) 2.10 x10E3/uL [0.7 -4.5]
Lymphocytes 35% [14-46]

In 2015 (July):
Lymphocytes (absolute) 1.50 x10E3/uL [0.7 -4.5]
Lymphocytes 27% [14-46]

In 2016 (April):
Blood drawn yesterday.

Does that tell us anything?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Does that tell us anything?

My lab range for lymphocytes is 1000 - 4500 uL and in my experience when they are below 25% (~1,100uL) I may be in trouble. DH's are at 40,4 % 2280/uL!
So I think they are kind of lowish at 27% considering all the vitamins you take...

 

[South]

@Gondwanaland Sorry to keep harping at this, but it isn't correct that fat is high in choline, it is only certain kinds of foods that are high in choline, and the fat content doesn't correlate. For example, canola oil, and many plant oils and animal source oils, have almost no choline. Yet eggs have a lot of choline.

I'm quite sensitive to choline, it sometimes makes me wired (long story), so I've been down that road a few times.

Anyway, for anyone wanting quantities of choline in any food, this is a good site:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000144000000000000000-20w.html?

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Gondwanaland Sorry to keep harping at this, but it isn't correct that fat is high in choline, it is only certain kinds of foods that are high in choline, and the fat content doesn't correlate. For example, canola oil, and many plant oils and animal source oils, have almost no choline. Yet eggs have a lot of choline.

Here is the link for choline in some kinds of fat. You will notice that the foods highest in choline (eggs and meats) are high in fat.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-004144000000000000000-w.html?maxCount=6
Foods highest in Choline
(based on levels per 100-gram serving)
in Fats and Oils
1 Vegetable oil, soybean lecithin
Choline: 350mg
2 Fat, chicken
Choline: 122mg
3 Fat, duck
Choline: 122mg
4 Fat, turkey
Choline: 122mg
5 Fat, beef tallow
Choline: 80mg
6 Fat, mutton tallow
Choline: 80mg

Read More http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-004144000000000000000-w.html?maxCount=6#ixzz47eQmg6iP

 

[picante]

My lab range for lymphocytes is 1000 - 4500 uL and in my experience when they are below 25% (~1,100uL) I may be in trouble. DH's are at 40,4 % 2280/uL!
So I think they are kind of lowish at 27% considering all the vitamins you take...

I'll wait and see what the current lab results are.

 

[kangaSue]

Hypoglycemia is a stress symptom. This causes potassium to be excreted in the urine and salt to be retained, contributing to hypertension. Adelle Davis suggests that the unpleasant feelings of hypoglycemia may be relieved by taking potassium chloride tablets.

Very interesting reading, thanks for the link.

Hypoglycemia can be caused by ATP-sensitive potassium channel (K+ATP) dysfunction so would taking potassium tablets be similar to potassium channel opening that occurs with nitrate drugs (and dietary nitrates)?

Maybe the subset of those with ME/CFS who find boosting NO with supplements or nitrates to be very beneficial have K+ATP channel dysfunction?.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16249427

 

[picante]

Hypoglycemia is a stress symptom. This causes potassium to be excreted in the urine and salt to be retained, contributing to hypertension.

I have low blood pressure, not high. And chronic hypoglycemia. I often have to eat in the middle of the night. I also have polyuria, so I don't think I'm retaining salt (which I consume in quantity, to try and keep water in my body).

 

[kangaSue]

I have low blood pressure, not high. And chronic hypoglycemia. I often have to eat in the middle of the night. I also have polyuria, so I don't think I'm retaining salt (which I consume in quantity, to try and keep water in my body).

I have low blood pressure too along with chronic GI dysfunction but I'm not hypoglycemic. I was looking for a reason to explain why vasodilator nitrate meds increased my blood pressure. Opening of the K+ATP channel was one reason I could find that might explain the rise in b.p.

 

[lch1]

There is some very interesting research on fatty acid supplementation by Brian Peskin who focuses on ALA and LA supplementation only. This information was critically helpful to me. His research is focused on increasing oxygenation within cells, which made total sense to me.