methyl trap please help

[douglasmich]

ok guys so i took 750mcg b12. I feel hungry now which is an improvement but now im really lethargic and just want to lay down. Feel spaced out aswell. My vision is still not back to normal.

When i took the multi a second time and felt hyper stimulated my nightblindness went away and i had clarity of vision.

What should i do? Im worried about my vision,

also have tightness in my neck and upper back now and increased chest pain

so only improvement ability to eat... Still feel spaced out all over, weak legs, night blindness, anxiety.

when i took the multi for a second time (250mcg methylfoalte) all these sides reversed then i woke up the next day crashed with night blindness again

 

[douglasmich]

just took 450mg licorice root as im guessing this is high potassium.

Felt abit better then worse, some tingling in my feet. Going to wait it out before i go to the ER... i bet in the ER my blood potassium will be fine.... probably something to due with cellular levles..

i just want to get out of this mess !!! damn that multivitamin... lost my perfect vision from it.. something is very messed up. It must be a combination of methyltrap and high potasium....

So i will recap what i did

Was taking licorice for low aldosteorne and started the multivitamin, over the next few days got very big low potassium symptoms so i stopped the licorice and binged on potasium for a week. This cleared it up. I also stopped the multivitamin. My night vision still was bad here when it wasnt before the multi.

Once my potassium felt ok i took the multi again just one cap, felt very very good mood energy. The next day i took 2 caps (about 250mcg mfolate) and i felt amazing. My night blindness was gone same with my visual floaters and i felt overmethylting even way too much energy i had to take melatonin to sleep.

I woke up the next day feling horrid. Could hardly open my eeys and i was very angry. My joints were incredibly inflamed aswell sounded like i had the methylfolate side effects. The next day i took 2500mcg biotin and this revved me up like crazy felt amazing but lead to a crash and felt really really bad. For the next 2 weeks i was chilling out consuming vegie juices and seemed to get worse each day and i started crashing from high potassium/folate juice. Then i lost my appetite completely and became a wreck. Terrible brainfog. And ive been bed ridden last 4 days because ive felt so bad.

After avoiding potassium i started to feel better, today i tried 750mcb12 and it made me hungry but spaced me out really bad. I then tried licorice and it didnt help much might of made me worse.

I then today tried curcumin and it made me worse aswell.

SO ive got no idea what the hell has happened. Its either a methyltrap, something is too high or something is too low. Maybe donut folate problem??? My legs are tingling and ive been getting some heart pain on and off and i feel like a space cadet.. Head pressurized and just really out of it. Checked BP and it was fine..

So what to hell do i do now haha? b12 didnt work... i dont know what it is... possibly an electrolyte imbalance but i dont htink that explains the night blindess....curcmin never made me feel bad in the past but it does now (

I just want to feel how i did before that multi i dont know whats happened. And ive been on a 0 potassium diet for a few adys now and dont seem to be getting better.

I dont know what to try next, il have metafolin tomorrow ? b12 makes me worse so i dont know what to do. I went from feeling normal and being able to function to being bed ridden with tingling weak legs brain fog and nightblindness

 

[douglasmich]

"If one has insufficient MeCbl and insufficient Metafolin, then a person can be in the
position to switching back and forth between methyltrap folate insufficiency
symptoms and partial methylation block B12 deficiency symptoms . So in methyltrap,
a little MeCbl is taken and one comes out of methyltrap with folate deficiency symptoms
and suddenly shows B12 deficiency symptoms with then fade back to methylation block
symptoms of folate insufficiency and B12 deficiency. it a;l seems very paradoxical which is
why it has confused so many people for so long. Only a person working on it from the inside
and succeeding is going to figure this out.. That is why ENOUGH of both MeCbl AND
Metafolin both needs to be taken to unblock the double whammy of methylation block and
methyltrap."

Ok this is my last hope. Taking methylfolate and methylb12 to try to get out of this mess. Then taking niacin to shut it down.

I am reacting to curcumin now this is ridiculous



Freddd: "Let’s say a person starts with a 200mcg dose of Metafolin with sufficient MeCbl-AdoCbl to start healing. In about three days frequently occur low potassium and/or donut hole folate insufficiency as a set of symptoms often called “detox”. The folate insufficiency symptoms can be relieved by taking enough Metafolin. If a person titrates at 200mcg per day they likely will not resolve the symptoms. That is because the additional folate generates additional need and plenty of time to start even more healing."

That sounds like me i got severe potassium loss from 200mcg. THen to aid the potassium i had high folate/folnic acid foods which kept driving me but seems to have caused this methylblock/trap.

I think the only way im gonna get out is take metafolin with b12 and hope for the best

 

[douglasmich]

ok guys so i took 2 caps of my multi again and 250mcg b12 subguinal.

Felt nothing maybe a little worse. WHen i did this 2 weeks ago i felt aamazing and my night blindness was cured.

I think this points to a Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency.

This should be dumping my potassium like crazy but it isnt. I dont feel that much worse or better.

So my metafolin comes tomorrow. I gues il try taking 400-800mcg see if i get any better?

Would you guys say i need to get the methylation cycle running then hit niacin/

maybe 1 cap of the multivitamin for cofactors, then 400mcg methylfoalte and 1000mcg b12 (makes me spacey)

im scared to take methylfoalte but i have no other choise, i dont know what the hell is going wrong, im reacting to literally anything which is not normal for me.

It has to be a combination of high potsssium and Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency

thoughts?

 

[dannybex]

Take a deep breath. And then take another 3 or 4 long, deep breaths. Seriously.

You said that the b12 made you worse, but that's not what I'm reading above. It made you hungry, which as you noted is good -- and it is -- especially if you're anxious. Then it made you lethargic, which again is a good sign. After being anxious for so long one is bound to be worn out (lethargic) and will need to and should lay down.

Then you took the multivittamin and while you had a very temporary improvement in your vision, everything else seemed to get worse. That to me suggests that there is something or some things in that multi that you either don't need, or may be causing the problems.

The problem with multivitamins is that they have too many ingredients to be able to figure out what is causing the problem. But if it were me, I would stop that multivitamin. It seems like that is the thing that caused you all the problems in the first place.

You also stated that you have low aldosterone. I don't know, but I believe that Freddd's case was different. Although he had lost muscle, he retained water big time -- so it may be that he had normal or high aldosterone levels.

In other words, what worked for him and some others, may be not be the advice that you should follow. There are many, many others here who have not been able to tolerate his 'protocol' or the super-high doses of B12 or folate that he suggests. There are some who can't even tolerate crumbs of B12 or folate. There are others that do very well on glutathione or the glutathione precursors (NAC and whey) that Freddd reacted poorly too. Everyone is different.

Naturally vision problems are worrisome, but they won't go away in an hour or two, or a week or two. I would research 'night blindness' and find out what might help that, but in the meantime, try going back to what you were taking or doing before all of this got worse, and/or maybe try tiny amounts of B12 for several days to a week or more before adding the next thing.

And eat whatever sounds good to you.

I'm not a doctor, nor is almost everyone on this site, so that's not meant as medical advice. But I and many others have been in the same panicky situation (sometimes for years) and survived and eventually started to improve.

Good luck.

 

[douglasmich]

Thanks. ..

Im really not sure what is going on. Im getting sicker and sicker... feet are tingling. Maybe i mobilized mercury or something. .. not sure

I mean if a see an MD they will have no clue. I feel like something is very low or high in my body. And i feel poisoned. Might be electrolytes at a cellular level. .. no idea... if a hospital can help.

 

[douglasmich]

Its 5am here first night not sleeping in a longtime. Feeling very ill.

Took 250mcg b12 and it made me very hungry that's about it. Also increases upper back tightness and made me urinate.

Have not decided yet if i will try 800mcg folate. .. im running out of options

 

[dannybex]

Many people get almost instant neuropathy from even tiny amounts of B6 or p5p, so it might not be mercury at all. Again, I would either stop all the supplements, or just take small amounts of B12 for at least a few days before starting any other supplement.

If you feel any or all methylation and related supplements are causing you problems, then my two cents would be to stop them and take some activated charcoal a couple hours away from a meal (typically at the end of the day), and that might -- might -- help.

If the neuro symptoms are from the b6 / p5p, then it can take days or weeks to resolve, but the charcoal may help with that as well. Hopefully others will chime in with suggestions.

@ahmo @caledonia @Valentijn ???

 

[ahmo]

If you feel any or all methylation and related supplements are causing you problems, then my two cents would be to stop them and take some activated charcoal a couple hours away from a meal (typically at the end of the day), and that might -- might -- help.

Agreed.

 

[caledonia]

Many people get almost instant neuropathy from even tiny amounts of B6 or p5p, so it might not be mercury at all. Again, I would either stop all the supplements, or just take small amounts of B12 for at least a few days before starting any other supplement.

If you feel any or all methylation and related supplements are causing you problems, then my two cents would be to stop them and take some activated charcoal a couple hours away from a meal (typically at the end of the day), and that might -- might -- help.

If the neuro symptoms are from the b6 / p5p, then it can take days or weeks to resolve, but the charcoal may help with that as well. Hopefully others will chime in with suggestions.

@ahmo @caledonia @Valentijn ???

@ahmo @dannybex

I've been talking to Douglas via PM. I have suggested that he stop all experimentation with supplements and let things wash out until he can get back to a baseline. And that it might take some weeks to resolve. And that he check in with his doc or the ER if necessary.

Charcoal might be ok, but the only problem is it will cause constipation if you take it more than a day or so. I suppose he could add some fiber to that to counteract that. Normally, I would suggest magnesium, but his electrolytes already seem to be screwed up, so it would probably be best to avoid that for now.

As long as the constipation issue is accounted for, and he doesn't go overboard on charcoal supplementation, I don't think charcoal would make things worse.

 

[ahmo]

@caledonia

 

[douglasmich]

Thanks guys

The things is i waited 2 weeks after stopping the multi and i got worse each day as i was consuming folate / potassium drinks. Then ended up bed ridden. So i feel its something i have to correct because time wasn't helping me

 

[douglasmich]

tried 800mcg folate and 1000mcg b12 today.

just heated up and felt nothing. What the hell has happened??? 150mcg folate gave me insane potassium wasting 3 weeks ago now 800 does nothing?? does this prove a donut hole folate trap?

I really donty know what to do now....... if i lie in bed for a few months waiting to get better if its a folate trap my brain will get worse

wwho ever knew vitamins could ruin someone... was healthy just a month ago

also my urine smells bad, i think ive got multiple things going wrong..

 

[douglasmich]

wento to ER today for chest pain

ecg and electrolytes were fine....

not sure wat to do, dont want to get MS

 

[PatJ]

150mcg folate gave me insane potassium wasting 3 weeks ago now 800 does nothing??

I doubt it was just the folate. Your b-complex has high amounts of B1, B2, and B3. I think Freddd recommends keeping B1,2,3 below 20mg per day otherwise potassium demand goes even higher than it would otherwise.

 

[dannybex]

@douglasmich

Here is a link where hundreds of people have posted about their experiences with B6 toxicity:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Nutrition/B6-Toxicity/show/2642?page=1

Many of them report feeling like they have MS even going to the doctor to rule it out. They did not -- they had symptoms of b6 toxicity.

Again, they can take days, weeks or months to subside. And again, I would stop all supplements, with the possible exception of some activated charcoal (w/some fiber as Caledonia mentioned) maybe at the end of the day, a couple hours after meals.

 

[douglasmich]

Hey guys,

feeling fine now, appetite is back. Had my eyes checked and they were fine

I think i slipped into anxiety and depression somehow, i took 800 folate yesterday and at night some niacin and woke up feeling pretty good. I also went for some exericse.

Im suffering from some health problems and i think i was just overanalysing everything. I did exercise last night and tanned today and meditated and i feel awsome. Heart and eyes were tested as fine so nothing to worry about.

Going to eat a healthy diet and see what my 23andme says. And i will not take that vitamin again.

i also started freezing cold showers... amazing improvement in mood

 

[douglasmich]

Well guys some tinging/numbness has come back mainly in my left leg and alot worse after sitting down... does that sound like poor circulation?

My health problems are

-chronic constipaiton (severe gut dysbiosis from antibiotics)
-Low free cortisol (causing hypothyroid temps)
-keratosis pilaris and acne (caused from dysbiosis)

My stool test showed an overgrowth of klebseilla and citrobacter... thats all i know.. ive had constipiaton all my life so i probably have many nutrient deficiency.

i ordered this b compex http://au.iherb.com/Nature-Made-B-Complex-with-Vitamin-C-100-Caplets/54158 what do you think?

ive also started taking b12 just 125mcg a day under the tongue.. as i have a feeling i depleted my b12 and thats whats causing some tingling/weakness in the legs. I felt some inflammaiion in my joints after taking 800 folate but it seems to be dying down. Ive been taking niacin before bed...

 

[douglasmich]

Went to gym. Feeling alot of inflammation in my joints from taking methylb12..... thought only folate did that. Im taking 250mcg a few x a day to make sure im not methyl trapped lol. It gives me neck pain and i feel spacey after dosing

 

[douglasmich]

dosed b12 again today, again upper back pain similar to low potassium. could all the folate i loaded up on from vegetables be moving my methylation?

no idea if im deficiecnt in b12.. but i had the symptoms after using folate.. My neck is so tight after taking b12 what could cause that?