methyl trap please help

[douglasmich]

ordered b12, metafolin, p5p and a low dose b complex. hopefully one of these things gets me out of this mess.

Just took half a cap of drs best mutli. About 150mcg b12 50mcg methylfolate. if this makes me worse i will wait for my b12

extreme agitation restless legs, head pressure, loss of night visoin.. quite scary... lets hope i can get out of this mess

EDIT - Made me worse.. going to lie in my bed fasted untill the b12 comes and pray it gets me out of this. my legs are crawling with anxiety and restlessness

 

[dannybex]

Douglas,

I wouldn't assume it's a methyl-trap just because someone else had some of the similar symptoms and said it was a 'methyl-trap'.

There could be lots of possible things going on. The b-vitamins may have depleted other minerals besides potassium. The raw veggies could be altering the bacterial balance in your gut. Or you could have uncovered or developed a problem with foods high in oxalates or histamine for example. Liver is very high in both copper and histamine -- both of which can be stimulating if they're out of balance.

And speaking from my personal experience (and a few others here) -- some of us have trouble tolerating B6 and even it's coenzymated form p5p -- and got a lot of extreme anxiety and agitation from it -- including twitching and leg jerks. It might be wise to stay away from that -- just as a suggestion -- and possibly eat some 'comfort food' -- something to calm you down. A little comfort food may be just the thing you need.

Btw, here's a just one thread where people (including myself) have posted about problems with B6:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...aking-b6-and-feeling-funny-help-please.34126/

Lastly, the damage isn't permanent. I'm sure it feels that way, but as a 'veteran', I and many others have been through really scary times where we were certain we wouldn't make it, but we did, and things gradually resolved or improved somewhat.

Hang in there!

 

[douglasmich]

hey thanks for the tips.

ive taken multivitamins before that didnt have m-folate and never had issues, it was only now that the first time i ever took methylfoalte that i had all these insane reactions. I just want to get back to where i was before taking that damn multi.

Im avoiding all fruit and veg and liver for now, can stomach some salmon and rice thats about it.

I dont know what to do, seeing as orange juice, liver, carrot juice, spinach all made me 1000x worse all i can think is folate overload and low b12. As the multi i was taking was oral b12 and mfolate so folate would of dominated, especailly because when the potassium deficiecy started i drank like 1L carrot juice a day which is boat loads of follic acid/folate. and i continued to do this for 2 weeks after stopping b12 and methylfoalte and seemed to get worse and worse untill i realsied it was the folate in my diet ,messing me up.

i dont know, im just going to hold on untill the b12 comes and hope it helps me out of this mess

 

[dannybex]

Sometimes one can get too much potassium from a lot of veggies. It all depends on kidney function -- sometimes potassium should be restricted. Carrots are relatively low in potassium, but a liter of juice -- that could be a lot.

I too had extreme reactions when I first started methylfolate -- but also was prescribed a lot of other methylation supps at the same time -- so it was overkill, but eventually calmed down.

One other possibility might be to take some activated charcoal -- a few caps -- about 2-3 hours after your last meal of the day. Sometimes that helps trap toxins, etc., and helps people sleep.

 

[douglasmich]

I think ive developed a good sense for potassium,, when it was low i had an upperback ache really bad that went away with potassium, when sodiums low i get salt cravings..

this is alot differnt, it seems like low potassium, over methylation and methyltrap share similar symptoms, but i think its methyltrap because ive felt overmethylated before and it wasnt like this. WHen i had really low potassium i could still eat, right now i cannot eat at all.

So i guess... IF it is a methyltrap... do i just need b12 and some folate to get going again then hit the niacin to kill it once im out of the trap?

 

[douglasmich]

ok guys i think this might be HIGH potassium aswell as a methyltrap/donut hole. Not sure which one ((

Before methylation i had to AVOID potassium due to low aldosterone. Now i think since i loaded up on potassium so much i have way too much due to low aldosteonre.

high potassium symptoms
-tingling
-weakness
-no appetite

I think this is why im getting worse from juice. I also just had some potassium powder and tingling and head pressure intensified !

What should i do? go to the ER?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Yes potassium tastes disgusting right now.

have not eaten anything in a day because i vomit if i eat

This could be due to low B1.

It is a guessing game. You need blood tests for anemia, iron, ferritin, homocysteine.

If niacinamide didn't help I doubt niacin will do something.

 

[douglasmich]

Been reading freds posts, pretty certain its methtltrap. Most people say i need b12.

I just want to stop methylation cause i was fine before all this. I need to escape the trap then get out and wait for 23andme.. not exactly sure how

 

[Gondwanaland]

What should i do? go to the ER?

I went to ER 3x and the only thing that helped me was magnesium oxide and sodium bicarbonate baths. Too much potassium will cause acidosis.
Do you have dry mouth?

 

[dannybex]

If it's a methyl-trap, then B12 is the remedy -- no more folate until you untrap the folate. From the Wiki page:

"Additionally, a defect in homocysteine methyltransferase or a deficiency of B-12 may lead to a so-called "methyl-trap" oftetrahydrofolate (THF), in which THF is converted to a reservoir of methyl-THF which thereafter has no way of being metabolized, and serves as a sink of THF that causes a subsequent deficiency in folate.[13] Thus, a deficiency in B-12 can generate a large pool of methyl-THF that is unable to undergo reactions and will mimic folate deficiency."

And if you're vomiting every time you eat, you might try some activated charcoal. But yeah, sounds like a good idea to go to the doctor or the ER if you're not able to eat anything.

 

[douglasmich]

so i should just take 1000mcg b12? or do i need to take it with the multivitamin that has mfolate.

i feel like im getting MS

 

[douglasmich]

"Freddd: "Let’s say a person starts with a 200mcg dose of Metafolin with sufficient MeCbl-AdoCbl to start healing. In about three days frequently occur low potassium and/or donut hole folate insufficiency as a set of symptoms often called “detox”. The folate insufficiency symptoms can be relieved by taking enough Metafolin. If a person titrates at 200mcg per day they likely will not resolve the symptoms. That is because the additional folate generates additional need and plenty of time to start even more healing.""

Sound like me. I only took 200mcg methylfolate n got huge potassium loss. Then i replenished the potassium with fruit juice and felt ok for a week. Then i took the multi again and felt over methylation but awesome for 2 days then i woke up crashed and ive gotton worse and worse ever since and started reacting to vegetables and juice.

And now im bed ridden. So it looks like i need b12 and metafolin to get out. I just want to stay away from methylation lol. So dangerous for me.

 

[douglasmich]

So i will have b12 tomorrow and metafolin the day after. And a new b complex in a week.

Hope i can sort this, seems like a donut hole methyltrap or something... really worried because fred says being ike this for long causes damage.. im feeling very very ill worst ive ever felt in my life canot funciton at all!!

 

[ahmo]

You haven't been in this state a long time yet. Even though it feels like it. Here's the Doctor's Best Mult. Someone else here might find something that leaps out. I wonder if the horsetail/silicon might have affected you. I've reacted to it. You don't need to take the multi along w/ B12, since what you're trying to do is dampen down the effects of multi.

Vitamin A (as retinyl palmitate) 5000 IU 100%
Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 300 mg 500%
Vitamin D (as D3, cholecalciferol) 1600 IU 400%
Vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopheryl acetate) 30 IU 100%
Vitamin K (as K2, menaquinone-7) 80 mcg 100%
Thiamin (Vitamin B1) (as hydrochloride) 60 mg 4000%
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 75 mg 4412%
Niacin (Vitamin B3) 20 mg 100%
Niacinamide (Vitamin B3) 30 mg 150%
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxal-5-phosphate) 20 mg 1000%
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride) 30 mg 1500%
Folate (as methylfolate/Quatrefolic) 400 mcg 100%
Vitamin B12 (as methylcobalamin) 1000 mcg 16667%
Biotin 600 mcg 200%
Pantothenic acid (as calcium pantothenate) 90 mg 900%
Calcium (as pantothenate, citrate, malate) 20 mg 2%
Iodine (as potassium iodide) 75 mcg 50%
Magnesium (as glycinate) 100 mg 25%
Zinc (as citrate) 25 mg 167%
Selenium (as sodium selenite) 105 mcg 150%
Copper (as glycinate) 1 mg 50%
Manganese (as glycinate) 4 mg 200%
Chromium (as picolinate) 600 mcg 500%
Molybdenum (as glycinate) 75 mcg 100%
Potassium (as citrate) 105 mg 3%
Gamma, beta, delta tocopherols (Vitamin E) 90 mg †
Choline (as bitartrate) 100 mg †
Boron (as glycinate) 3 mg †
Silicon (as horsetail extract) 3 mg †
Lutein, carotenoid 3 mg †
Zeaxanthin, carotenoid 300 mcg †
† Daily Value not established.

 

[douglasmich]

You haven't been in this state a long time yet. Even though it feels like it. Here's the Doctor's Best Mult. Someone else here might find something that leaps out. I wonder if the horsetail/silicon might have affected you. I've reacted to it. You don't need to take the multi along w/ B12, since what you're trying to do is dampen down the effects of multi.

I didnt have CFS before this multi just some IBS and fatigue.

This is exactly what i did.

The multivitamin doses above are for 3 tablets. I started on 2 per day and each day i started to feel worse and worse and then i took 3 in one day and was bed ridden, ears blocked horrible fatigue and i realised it was low potassium after finding this site. I stopped the multi and had 4000mg potassium a day, 5 carrots a day, 150g spianch a day and felt really really good. For the next week i still felt abit off despite having enough potassium. I decided to take the multi again just one cap. felt pretty good then the next day i took 2 caps, felt hyper active and amazing, floaters and nightblindness went away, mood amaazing appetite amazing then i woke up the next day severly fogged and intolerant to noise so i stopped the multi.

I then took 2.5mg biotin and had a rush of energy then another crash. For the next 2 weeks i waited it out and started to get abit better, then worse and worse and worse, after drinking juice or eating vegies i was getting pressure in my head and anxiety and dizzy. Each day i got worse and worse and worse untill 5 days ago when i was bed ridden with crippling anxiety. I lost my appetite and can not eat anything without feeling very sick. I tried the multi again 2 days ago and got worse, same with niacin.

Symptoms im now suffering

-multiplle eye floaters
-night blindnesss
-spaced out
-zero appetite
-shaky weak legs
-restless legs
-depression
-extreme brain fog
-intolerance to all foods with folate
-potassium makes all symptoms worse
-feel very wrong and sick

I feel very very wrong and poisoned . Something is either high or low in my body and its quite terrifying.

After reading this site all i can think is that its a methyltrap or a donut folate trap... but since folate drinks made me worse then maybe its just lack of b12??

Keep in mind i only took like 200mcg methylfolate to get in this mess. ive taken many multivitamins no issues, only this one that did this to me and the only change was methylfoalte in it... seeing as the potassium loss was insane id say that did it since ive never experienced anything like it

I asked about adding the b12 to the multi because fredd says this

""So in methyltrap, a little MeCbl is taken and one comes out of methyltrap with folate deficiency symptoms and suddenly shows B12 deficiency symptoms with then fade back to methylation block symptoms of folate insufficiency and B12 deficiency. it a;l seems very paradoxical which is why it has confused so many people for so long. Only a person working on it from the inside and succeeding is going to figure this out.. That is why ENOUGH of both MeCbl AND Metafolin both needs to be taken to unblock the double whammy of methylation block and methyltrap"""

He seems to thinkk you need both to get out of the trap... arggh so confusing the thing is hes adressing people that WANT to do methylaiton.. i DONT haha... i dont want to go near it i thought stopping the multi would get me away from it but i seem to be trapped in some state and im not improving with time/avoiding eating anything lol

 

[douglasmich]

OKay guys i just read this

""With low aldosterone you are going to have trouble with the methylation protocol particularly if you are taking increasing doses of methylfolate and B12.

Once the methylation cycle starts up the potassium level will drop and supplemental potassium is necessary. This means that the potassium level is usually going up and down more than normal to prevent low potassium. With low aldosterone there also has to be constant adjustment to sodium levels to prevent unbalancing the sodium/potassium ratio and keep the adrenals stable.

This constant need to keep supplementing potassium also unbalances the thyroid gland. Increases in potassium tend to slow down the thyroid and conversely lowering potassium will speed the thyroid up.

This means the 2 main glands controlling energy are constantly flucuating and can never really be in a stable relationship with one another.

You need IMO to get the adrenals sorted out first. Im not quite sure why you are not on florinef for the low aldosterone. Getting adequate sodium with florinef would help keep the adrenals less subject to being unbalanced by potassium variations.

At the present going into higher potassium levels with inadequate sodium will cause an inverted Na/K ratio and make you feel suicidal. It can also cause acute stress on the liver,kidneys and heart.
I think you also need to stop methylation until you can get it monitored by a doctor""

I forgot to mention, i suffer LOW ALDOSTERONE. Before methylation i needed to salt my water or i would get dizzy.

When i started this multi and got potassium wasting i pumped huge amounts of potassium, when in the past i had to AVOID potassium because it made my aldosteorne worse...

now im thinking this could be hyperkalemia.... would explain why juice and potassium powder worsened me...

 

[dannybex]

@douglasmich -- you may have just answered your own questions.

 

[douglasmich]

Was feeling better last night. Woke up this morning with a pounding headache. . Still feel off not sure what's up...

 

[douglasmich]

got the b12. dissolving 250mcg under my tongue right now... will update...

 

[douglasmich]

not sure if i feel better or worse, felt abit tingly as it was absorping. GOing to try another 500mcg