thank you Fredd. i am really trying to get my head around all this stuff!! also i don't even know how to put a quote into the post let alone comprehend the complexities of methylation, detox etc! so can this (your post above i mean) explain why i seem to be fine on folates and b12 that come from the food that i ingest but that taking supplements of 5mthf and meCbl (even small amounts) seem to push me over a nasty edge? what do you mean by "then has the methyl group replaced" and also your last sentence? thank you, caroline
Hi Caroline,
To quote me press the reply that is on my post and it will quote. Then eliminate what you don't want included.
The nasty edge most people experience with MeCbl and l-methylfolate is to induce low potassium and/or induced donut hole methylfolate deficiency. See the lists of symptoms below. About 95% of what people call "detox" is actually low potassium and/or low folate. So Glutathione and NAC "detox" are both methyltrap situations causing paradoxical folate deficiency symptoms. When methylation starts, cells start getting made and low potassium results as healing begins. Again though it is usually called "detox" it is low potassium. Also, a little bit of folate starts a lot more healing than it can maintain. That induced low folate is also called "detox". Perhaps 20 different things are called "detox". Most of it is low potassium and/or low folate. To ignore low potassium by calling it "detox" is dangerous and can end up in the hospital or morgue as well as being just plain miserable.
People keep blaming MeCbl for being a source of methyl groups (CH4). It isn't. 99% of MeCbl is excreted as MeCbl within 48 hours according to research. A catalyst participates in a reaction and is the same at the end as it was at the beginning. MeCbl facilitates the passing of a CH4 to other things, along with methylfolate. These things are measured in micrograms. The bulk methyl-donors, like TMG and Choline are measured in mgs, 1 mg = 1000 mcg. Also, MeCbl has a total molecular mass of 1335 or so (several versions). A CH4 group has a molecular mass of 16, 1.3% of the total.
The reason you have no reaction to the food b12 and folate can be manifold. That you have a reaction so large to the supplements says to me that you are VERY DEFICIENT. The food can't possibly contain enough for you to get out of the hole of deficiency in your lifetime most likely. Pick out all the symptoms you get from the list below and any others that are not on the list below and let's talk about them. They will tell the story.
Version 1.2 12/08/2013
Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with CyCbl (cyanocobalamin) it is very common with MeCbl (methylcobalamin) and AdoCbl (adenosylcobalamin) and less so with HyCbl (Hydroxycobalamin).
There does not appear to be a clear order of onset. The order of onset varies widely from person to person but many appear consistent for each episode for any given person. There tend to be more and more intense symptoms as it gets worse. Some people have ended up in the ER because of not recognizing the symptoms.
IBS – Steady constipation, Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum,
Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, spasms and excruciating pain in neck muscles, waking up screaming in pain from muscle spasms in legs. Muscle weakness
Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), increased pulse rate, increased blood pressure
Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.
Group 2a - Both
IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation
Group 2b – Either or both
Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue
Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency
These symptoms appear in 2 forms generally, the milder symptoms that start with partial methylation block and the more severe symptoms that come on as partial methylation block gets worse or very quickly with methyltrap onset.
Edema - An additional thing I would like to mention. I would never have found it without 5 years of watching the onset of paradoxical folate insufficiency and trying to catch it earlier and earlier and to figure out what was causing it and to reverse it. For me the onset order goes back to the day of onset now with edema and a sudden increase of weight. I noticed that within 2 hours of taking sufficient Metafolin I would have an increase in urine output.
Old symptoms returning
Edema
Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores,
Skin rashes, increased acne, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips,
Increased hypersensitive responses, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, rapidly increasing Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms
IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract,
Coated tongue, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Increase irritability, Heart palpitations,
Longer term, very serious
Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, bleeding easily
Group 4 - HyCbl onset, degraded MeCbl onset, MeCbl after photolytic breakdown onset.
Itchy bumps generally on scalp or face that develops to acne like lesions in a few days from start.