Methyl B12, Vit D increases excitotoxicity, what to do??

[Chocolove]

I am on valium to barely control my anxiety, panic attacks, overstimulation, ears aching ringing sizzing hearling loss, neuropathy, secere brain fog, ability to focus, some days i just stare out of focus at my wall all day.

It seems like im in a perpetual state of benzodiazapine withdrawal.

This site may be of interest:
http://www.benzosupport.org/index.htm

 

[Konflict]

Hi Konflict,

Yes, the symptoms you have can be related to altering the balance in your methionine cycle.

A very good functional medicine doctor could untangle you. Working with a less savvy doctor and getting some data would help. A Genova Diagnostics NutrEval test would help a lot in understanding what's going on. A Doctors Data provoked urine heavy metals test might be useful, too. And a CBC, complete metabolic panel and homocysteine level.

You're a unique genetic individual with unique environmental factors, which is why a one size fits all approach doesn't work. I suspect the proportions of what you took threw your body dramatically out of balance... the proportions you report is extremely different than what my doctor has me on (like needing more P5P, B2, magnesium, and methionine...).

This is just a guess, but you've probably mobilized toxins and your body is having trouble getting rid of them through your kidneys, intestines, and sweat. I've had many of the same symptoms working with my doctor over the past 5 years.

While getting more info, so you can put together a comprehensive plan, you might try these ideas:

- eating lots of vegetables and taking binders like charcoal, etc. Different binders bind different toxins, so you may want to research these and experiment

- promoting glutathione with n-acetyl-cysteine, and adequate aminos, particularly glycine and glutamine

- helping your transsulfuration pathway with more P5P, taurine, and molybdenum

- FIR or dry sauna, starting in short intervals

- ensuring you have enough potassium, magnesium, calcium, and sodium.

Best wishes to you and I hope you can find a doctor who can help. What you're describing is not a do it yourself project and could be dangerous.

Thanks for the reply. Yes I didn't understand what methylated vitamins were or that taking them could alter your life.

So after methylated vitamins, they could "crash" you 5 weeks after not taking them at all? Also, could they cause hormonal changes such as acne and increased body odor?

Thanks for the advice on the tests....I have seen an ND and she seems so-so about the whole methylation thing, she gets it (I really don't) but idk if she understand the ins and outs of balancing and what not. I'm still not totally sure if this is what caused my symptoms as vitamin E and K2 are Aromatase inhibitors and I have all symptoms of low estrogen.

I've been taking about 800-1200 mg of potassium via coconut water a day, a few tsp of sea salt a day, and 500 mg magnesium oxide before bed.

I also think that I could have a started a detox in my body and now have Mercury toxicity....I took a heavy metal urine test 2 weeks ago and it came back negative for Mercury as well as lead and arsenic, but I'm getting a hair test done as I've read it's a little more accurate in terms of Mercury in the organs and body tissue.

Right now I've just been eating a healthy balanced diet, taking a probiotic and trying to get sleep (only sleeping about 3 hours a night as my insomnia is BAD).

 

[Chocolove]

didn't understand what methylated vitamins were or that taking them could alter your life.

my insomnia is BAD).

Methylated B vitamins can be very stimulating so they should be taken early since they will keep you awake. Being in active form, they can be overwhelming. It is wise to start in small amounts and work up slowly so that you can avoid a crash. Make sure to take appropriate co-factors so that you don't end up with another nutrient depletion and crash. Potassium can be a seriously depleted and crashes from this problem have been experienced by many here. Serious, as in on the floor wondering if one will survive. The fact that they are in active form may be the problem.

The body in it's wisdom may not convert B vitamins to active form when inappropriate, but since we give it no choice when supplying the active form, we suffer the consequences.

Here are just a few threads mentioning problems, there are many more.

Trouble with B vitamins | Phoenix Rising ME / CFS Forums
forums.phoenixrising.me › … › Treatment and Therapy
Jan 30, 2016 · Almost all B vitamins I tried either give me a ton of acne or cause severe cramps and diarrhea: meB12: produces cystic acne after a few weeks (3?)

Views on B12--Greg (B12 oils) view vs Rich Van's view ... Sep 05, 2016
Confused about folate deficiency symptoms | Phoenix Rising ... Feb 24, 2015
No love of B2 here - a warning about riboflavin | Page 3 ... Jan 29, 2015
Best sublingual Methyl B-12? | Phoenix Rising ME / CFS Forums Feb 02, 2013

 

[Learner1]

If our bodies are unable to process toxins, they become stored in our bodies - in organs, fat, bones, and even inside mitochondria, sapping energy production.

This is an extremely high level view of how we get rid of them... lots of details are involved, which I won't get into here:

We have several detox processes, which use different nutrients to process different toxins.

One of these is called methylation, which uses folate, B12, B2, B6, magnesium, ATP and some amino acids. If stuff successfully gets through this, we make glutathione, a very powerful antioxidant, which is tremendously helpful in defanging bad things.

Once the bad stuff gets caught by these processes, it needs to leave our bodies, generally in feces, urine, or sweat. If we can't get rid of them fast enough, they can get reabsorbed, making us sick.

Arbitrarily taking a bunch of B12, etc. can abruptly loosen up toxins, which can cause lots of symptoms, like the ones you're describing. This can make you very sick. I know, I've been there. You need to get rid of whatever got mobilized, then rejigged your methylation protocol to fit what your body needs.

Great that your urine heavy metal test was OK. However, was it provoked, with DMSA, DMPS, or EDTA? Each of these chelators only will pull certain metals out of you, so if the right chelator wasn't used, that metal may not show up on your test.

It's not just metals. There are all kinds of toxins and substances our bodies metabolize. Metals are just easy to measure. The estrogen you keep mentioning is one of these substances. You may have an issue with CYP1B1 or COMT which may affect how its metabolized.

Hopefully, your naturopath is a good one, and can sort out what's going on. He or she should be doing some of the things I mentioned above, as well as adjusting your B vitamins, and possibly offering IVs of curcumin and glutathione. And suggesting you do a 23andme test.

Good luck!

 

[Konflict]

@Chocolove yes I always used to take them right when I woke up, but I haven't taken them in more than 3 months.....I crashed 5 weeks after being off them totally. I'm still taking about 1000mg potassium a day and a cup or 2 of water with 1 tsp seat salt, but nothing slowly down my regression. Can a crash happen 5 weeks after stopping methylated B vitamins?

@Learner1 yea I truly feel if it's not estrogen related then it's metals/toxins for sure. I rarely sweat at all, but I do pee all the time. My stools are inconsistent but routinely have undigested food. I guess a functional MD could try to help me with the health issues even if my specific cause of all this isn't methylation related.

Actually they used nothing to chelate during the urine test...just told me to take it as is. I'm going to be ordering a bunch of tests when I get my taxes back, is there a difference between the 23andme test and the nutrEval test?

Thanks for the responses guys.

 

[Learner1]

@Learner1 yea I truly feel if it's not estrogen related then it's metals/toxins for sure. I rarely sweat at all, but I do pee all the time. My stools are inconsistent but routinely have undigested food. I guess a functional MD could try to help me with the health issues even if my specific cause of all this isn't methylation related.

Actually they used nothing to chelate during the urine test...just told me to take it as is. I'm going to be ordering a bunch of tests when I get my taxes back, is there a difference between the 23andme test and the nutrEval test?

Thanks for the responses guys.

You likely have a lot going on.

Getting digestion working properly is key to getting well. Cleaning up your diet (try Paleo), taking probiotics and digestive enzymes, and getting rid of any bad bacteria, candida, parasites, etc.

A 23andme test will help you understand how genetics is playing a role, especially if you have other family members with CFS, cancer, autism or mental health issues. You do thereat, then interpret it with other software. PM me if you need help at that point.

The genetics just tells you what your body is prone to doing. Much research isxstill being done. Environmental factors can change how the genes express themselves, good or bad.

I'd repeat the heavy metal urine test with DMPS and EDTA. I'd be surprised if you had no heavy metals show up then. Ideally follow the test with glutathione and curcumin to flush out what gets mobilized. You might be if you can sweat in a FIR or dry sauna.

The NutrEval will give you your current nutrient status, which should help you tremendously. B vitamins, antioxidants, aminos, fats, and some high level info on gut dysbiosis, toxicity, neurotransmitters, and mitochondrial function. I'd skip the genetics, but make sure they check the vitamin D box. Do the prepay program - it's running US $154 in my area.

And a DUTCH test will help you figure out what's going on with your hormones.

 

[Chocolove]

Can a crash happen 5 weeks after stopping methylated B vitamins?

Hmmmm.... seems unlikely in my experience. Are you keeping a daily record of what you are taking, amounts, and what you are eating along with daily reactions and moods? That diary could be very helpful in sorting out the cause. Methyl B vitamin reactions are pretty fast in my experience.

A good nutritionist and/or Naturopathic Doctor with nutritional training might be able to sort out what's missing. There are some very common nutrient deficiencies. Some commonly missing nutrients are required for the body to be able to utilize other nutrients.