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Metabolic profiling reveals anomalous energy metabolism and oxidative stress pathways

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by JaimeS, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I suspect the crepe paper-like skin wrinkles that my suspected coxsackievirus B produces are likely due to a loss of elastin rather than collagen.

    Elastin can be destroyed by MMP-9, an enzyme known to be elevated in coxsackievirus B infections. More info in this post.
     
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  2. ChrisArmstrong

    ChrisArmstrong

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    I did not know that, I always viewed MMP-9 as degrading collagen but alternatives are always good to keep in mind, thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
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  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    MMP-9 does degrade collagen as well (for a list of what each MMP degrades, see page 24 of this document).

    However, my particular skin wrinkles looked very similar to a skin disease called mid-dermal elastolysis (MDE), in which elastin is destroyed (in MDE, elastin is thought to be destroyed by MMP-9 and/or elastase).
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
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  4. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    @ChrisArmstrong

    Not sure if this is relevant to our discussion, but FYI this study found a combination of BCAAs and glutamine to be most effective for dermal collagen synthesis. Interesting that single aminos had zero effect. Even collagen protein had no effect.

     
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  5. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    Thanks for that explanation I always wondered why it happened and guessed that for whatever reason BCAAs threw my neurotransmitters out of balance in a very negative way. I felt that my neurotransmitters are pretty well balanced with the hormone support that I get plus my diet and when I have taken BCAAs like you say they completely overstimulate my brain so that I cannot stop thinking and I cannot sleep. This has happened on a couple of occasions in the past and I have always remembered this and never been tempted to take them again.

    One interesting thing regarding diet is that for the past month I have been gluten and lactose free and it seems to have given me very good, stable energy like I haven't had since before crashing in 2000. I wonder if it has released a big burden from my body so that energy is permanently available (once my thyroid and adrenal meds have kicked in).

    Pam
     
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  6. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I also have raised titres to coxsackie, should be 1:1000 but mine were 1:10000 and I definitely have the wrinkly, saggy skin unfortunately. I thought it was an age thing cos I am 68 but my friends don't have this problem. It's been around for at least 10 years and I have had full blown ME/CFS/Lyme since 2000.

    Pam
     
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  7. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    OAT tests over the past 18 months or so show my glycolysis and Kreb's cycle pathways are really struggling. The Kreb's cycle pattern along with UAA tests convinced me that I am burning a lot of amino acids for energy.

    A recent set of tests showed the worst ever results. This was no surprise as over the past 6 months or so I have almost ground to a halt - energy and neurotransmitter production barely enabling me to get by.

    I've tried all the stuff to boost mitochondrial function, supplement B vitamins, carnitine etc that should be helping the energy pathways but to no avail.

    After seeing the last results I decided to try amino acid supplementation. Yes it might be better to fix the glycolysis/Kreb cycle blocks but nothing I've tried works. Maybe providing more amino acid fuel might at least help me to function a bit better.

    What amino acids?

    I've had very bad experiences with whey protein, including highly purified derived peptides (fairly sure it is glutamates in it that I am sensitive to) so wanted to stay away from protein based preparations. Also had bad experiences with glutamate and glutamine so wasn't interested in total amino acid preparations.

    I couldn't work out if some particularly amino acids would be better than others for energy burning purposes, so I ended up deciding to try an essential amino acid preparation. I figured this would boost the basic raw materials and my body could then decide which ones to send into the Kreb's cycle.

    I did decide to add some acetyl-tyrosine I happened to have since my neurotransmitters are really struggling. Just roughly the same amount as the phenylalanine in the preparation.

    I started with a fairly low dose (1/4 tsp - roughly 500 mg ) 3x daily on an empty stomach. I'm glad I started low - it was pretty electrifying at first - a lot of insomnia. However it was immediately obvious that it was helping.

    The overstimulation has settled and I've moved up to 1/2 tsp 3x daily. I will increase this again and am hoping that like so many others things the benefits don't gradually peter out.

    @ChrisArmstrong, short of a personalised strategy, do you have any thoughts about which amino acids might be best to boost energy production?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
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  8. Bob

    Bob

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    Ignore this... it's just for reference and searching the forum...

    Metabolic profiling reveals anomalous energy metabolism and oxidative stress pathways in chronic fatigue syndrome patients.
    Armstrong CW, McGregor NR, Lewis DP, Butt HL, Gooley PR.
    Metabolomics. 2015;11:1626-39.
    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11306-015-0816-5
     
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  9. SherDa

    SherDa

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    I need to contemplate this more, but I think this idea of burning amino acids for fuels seems like it will answer a lot of questions for me.

    I can see where some of the crashes I've been through could definitely have been protein deficiency (the rhabdomyolysis, the hair loss, the collagen loss, the lack of consistent response to B vitamins). I assumed for a long time that I was overlooking important minerals.

    Lack of appetite has been a huge problem for me. Of course, ghrelin (the appetite hormone) is a peptide hormone and not a steroid hormone. So I may not even have enough protein in me to make an appetite! And then there are the chaperone proteins that transport minerals- not sure I'm making enough of those either. Ugh, protein deficiency could cause so many problems!

    I worked with a biochemistry major for while, and we just could not figure out why I had to supplement lysine so frequently to feel okay.

    Vitamin A was a huge crash for me. It was 2 days of feeling absolutely glorious followed by a crash worse than I could have imagined. I think vitamin A might improve protein utilization so much that I ended up really deficient?

    I'm also interested in trying to figure out which aminos would best support the citric acid cycle, but first, I'm going to see if I can use ketones as an alternative energy source that would allow me to stop burning protein.
     
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