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ME Cure Clinic, Bedford - any experience?

Messages
1
Hello.
I've recently been made aware of the ME CLINIC based in Bedford.
Some quick research reveals this is also known as The Kaizen Clinic, led by Greg Wimbourne.
They claim to treat chronic fatigue by using the viral infection responsible for it.
Key tools appear to involve Bio-Electric Functions Diagnosis.
Is anyone familiar with this clinic and / or the consultant?
Thanks for your help
Claire
PS please note I'm a newcomer to this Forum so apologies in advance if I'm breaking any Forum rules!
I would like to know more about them before parting with any money.
 

Little Bluestem

All Good Things Must Come to an End
Messages
4,930
Welcome to the forum. That seems very wise to me. I cannot provide any help, but there is a good chance someone can.
 
Messages
15,786
Their refund offer sounds like a pile of poo. Basically if their notes say you have improved compared to your answers on an entry questionnaire, then there's no refund. They decide how you feel, not you.

I think the deception involved in the "money back guarantee" and their complete control over assessing how you feel is a very bad sign.
 
Messages
10,157
Their refund offer sounds like a pile of poo. Basically if their notes say you have improved compared to your answers on an entry questionnaire, then there's no refund. They decide how you feel, not you.

I think the deception involved in the "money back guarantee" and their complete control over assessing how you feel is a very bad sign.

Phoenix Rising was contacted by the Clinic regarding their 'money back guarantee'. They said:

Basically the point about the guarantee was correct in that it was somewhat confusing.

However, the wording of our guarantee was changed to make it clearer some time ago in all our literature but for some reason our web designers forgot to change it in the most important place...the website! (Admittedly we missed it as well!)

It you go there you will see that it is absolutely clear now that the decision and criteria for triggering the guarantee and refund is solely the patients:

Probably the most startling element about the ME Clinic programme is the fact that we are so confident of our success, we promise that if, in your view, the ME Cure Clinic Treatment Programme has not been able to significantly improve your condition within two months we will refund the cost of your treatment in full!
and further on...

But remember, if, in your opinion, you do not experience SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT WITHIN TWO MONTHS of starting the treatment programme, the ME Treatment Clinic guarantees to refund you all your treatment costs to date*.
No Arguments, No Discussion, No Problem.

This a correction, not an endorsement of the clinic. I suppose for me, I would have to know what they mean by 'significant improvement'.
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
I don't think I've experienced, seen, or heard of more than a couple of treatments which provide anything resembling "SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT" in 2 months. In fact, the only one that comes immediately to mind is POTS treatment which has helped some people get noticeable improvement in a relatively short time frame. However, I've never heard of anyone, say, going back to work after 2 months of POTS treatment unless their only problem was primary POTS (not ME/CFS).

The guarantee as corrected should reduce the risk factor somewhat. I'd still be cautious simply because "SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT" in 2 months is rare in ME/CFS even with all our long-term specialists throwing their best effort at the problem. I'd be more inclined to believe 6 months, which is a time-frame which allows some of the known treatments to have a significant effect. Even that's pretty short given the complexity of the illness and they number of body systems affected.

I don't buy the Bio-Electric Diagnostics thing, either, but that's just me. I prefer more rigorously studied and scientifically validated methods if I'm going to dump large sums of money.

I'd weigh my sense of risk, given the corrected guarantee, against the amount of money I thought I could afford to lose on this experiment.
 

Little Bluestem

All Good Things Must Come to an End
Messages
4,930
But remember, if, in your opinion, you do not experience SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT WITHIN TWO MONTHS of starting the treatment programme, the ME Treatment Clinic guarantees to refund you all your treatment costs to date*.
I'd want to know what that astarisk refers to.
 

ukxmrv

Senior Member
Messages
4,413
Location
London
Sometimes clinics or a treatment insist that you continue for xx period of time even if you are deteriorating. That would need to be checked if interested in a money back guarantee. That's what happened when an Aloe Vera company contacted one of our London ME groups offering a money back guarantee after xx months. The patient had to continue paying and using the product for that entire period of time before they could get a refund - even if they had a bad reaction.

I've no experience of the clinic but their website appears to have fallen into the similar cure claims as the Lighning Process one did and this could be referred to the Advertising Standards Commision. For example, it says it is a cure and a "tried and tested, safe, natural route back to full health". That's quite a claim to make.
 
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15,786
I'd want to know what that astarisk refers to.
From their site:
* Please note that the fee for the initial consultation is not included in the ME treatment guarantee.
"Treament Fees" are defined as:
Initial Consultation & Testing (2 hrs): £86
Follow-up Consultations: £36
Remedies: £14
Drainages: £24
I think the two-month limit is the biggest remaining problem with the guarantee. They say their remedies take 3-12 months to work, so you have to decide to stop before you even really get started, and you're still out the 86 pounds for the initial consult. There's also unlikely to have been much in the way of eligible treatment fees incurred yet at the 2 month limit.

They also don't say how they test for or treat pathogens. Using electronic impulse measurements for allergies is not particularly faith-inspiring for other areas :p Regarding treatment they won't give any specifics and say it's using potentisation, which really just means they pretend to treat things with homeopathy.

So it's basically faith-healing, rather than medicine. Nice enough if that's your thing, but it's a bit annoying that they're so coy about saying it.
 

Firestormm

Senior Member
Messages
5,055
Location
Cornwall England
ME Treatment Clinic
At Last, A Major Breakthrough
Your Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS),
also known as Myalgic Encephalomyeltis (ME)
Can Now Be Cured*!
Welcome to the ME Clinic,
specialists in the elimination of ME / CFS
Read about the Unique ME Cure Clinic
Money Back Guarantee below
It’s true, your ME / CFS no longer has to be endured or managed. Due to a major breakthrough in the treatment of ME / CFS by the Bedford based ME Clinic, it is now possible to completely cure me in a pain-free, needle-free and drug-free way once and for all.

The ME Clinic Treatment Programme ™ has been running successfully for well over 4 years and over and over again has proved its undoubted effectiveness.

a_greg.jpg
Senior Consultant Greg Wimbourne explains;
“This is not a symptom-suppression plan, it is not a dietary management system, nor is it some sort of “faddy” elimination-diet. This is a real possibility of a cure, based on one single, simple principle – eliminating the causes of these complaints ”.


Two Simple Steps To ME / CFS Elimination

There are essentially only two simple steps to the treatment programme.

Step 1: The ME Clinic Treatment Programme begins by tracking down and then confirming what is actually causing your symptoms.

Note: These causes are (almost without exception) found to involve a combination of viral infections. But we have also found that there are often underlying parasitical and bacterial infections involved as well.

Step 2: The ME Treatment Clinic then treats (or should I say kills) these pathogens (viruses, parasites, bacteria etc), using very much the same principles that are used in immunology.
Note: In other words, in the same way as someone who has been bitten by a venomous snake is treated with an “anti-venom” made from the venom of the snake; by treating the patient with derivatives of the actual causal pathogens that are causing the ME / CFS we are able to eliminate those very same agents. Thus, logic dictates, if the causal pathogen(s) which caused the original condition is/are no longer present the symptoms must disappear.

No More Causes = No More Symptoms

So, once the actual pathogens, which are at the root of all your ME / CFS symptoms, have been removed, they can no longer give you the symptoms (as they are no longer there) and, logically (if we have eliminated all of the causal pathogens of ME / CFS) your condition will improve.

Read more if you can stomach it...
 

Firestormm

Senior Member
Messages
5,055
Location
Cornwall England
This kind of thing gets my goat, is dangerous, and wholly unrealistic. Appeals to the desperate: like what I was - though I never went to these people but was suckered into 'allergy testing' and 'treatment' in the belief such things were responsible for my ME. Homeopathy run amok. They have no right claiming a cure. Really makes me angry :mad:
 

Tito

Senior Member
Messages
300
I had a look at the General Medical Council website and the name "Wimbourne" does not seem to be in their online register. It does say however that the absence from the list does not mean a doctor is not registered ("This does not mean the doctor you are looking for is not registered; there may simply be a problem with the name, or the GMC reference number, or the doctor's details may have been temporarily excluded while we update them."
 
Messages
10,157
I had a look at the General Medical Council website and the name "Wimbourne" does not seem to be in their online register. It does say however that the absence from the list does not mean a doctor is not registered ("This does not mean the doctor you are looking for is not registered; there may simply be a problem with the name, or the GMC reference number, or the doctor's details may have been temporarily excluded while we update them."


He is a 'Clinical Homeopath'.
 

Tito

Senior Member
Messages
300
Well, in the UK, "consultant" is the title of a senior physician who has completed all of his or her specialist training and been placed on the specialist register in their chosen speciality. Mr Wimbourne's use of the term "consultant" is clearly misleading and gives the impression that he is a medical doctor when in fact he is not. He mentions nowhere that he is a 'clinical Homeopath', he just says Cert.Clin.Hom.
 
Messages
10,157
Well, in the UK, "consultant" is the title of a senior physician who has completed all of his or her specialist training and been placed on the specialist register in their chosen speciality. Mr Wimbourne's use of the term "consultant" is clearly misleading and gives the impression that he is a medical doctor when in fact he is not. He mentions nowhere that he is a 'clinical Homeopath', he just says Cert.Clin.Hom.


Clinical Homeopath comes from his linkedin page -- http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/greg-wimbourne/11/9a6/976
 

Tito

Senior Member
Messages
300
Well, nowhere on the site where his money back guarantee is and where his ME treatment is mentioned. The potentially contractual references are on that website managed by him/his clinic, not on any other website managed by a third party.