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Mayonnaise/vinegar?

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by outdamnspot, Jun 29, 2018.

  1. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    This sounds kind of weird possibly, but I've noticed I have more mental energy and clarity the day after I consume mayonnaise before bed (I'm on a Ketogenic diet). Could the vinegar be having some gut-related effect?
     
  2. RWP (Rest without Peace)

    RWP (Rest without Peace) Senior Member

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    @outdamnspot

    Vinegar improves stomach acidity, so that would reduce pathogen activity. We sip on (while avoiding our teeth or using a glass straw) *white wine vinegar (6% acidity) at lunch & dinner. Apple cider vinegar is 5%. (*not for those with sensitivities to sulfite--naturally occurring compounds)

    Good luck!

    RWP + PWR
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
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  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    The acetic acid in vinegar promotes vasodilation; but I don't think there is much vinegar in mayonnaise.
     
  4. RWP (Rest without Peace)

    RWP (Rest without Peace) Senior Member

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    @outdamnspot

    While the vinegar content in the mayo is small, I can still taste it. One reason why you might like it is because you're on a keto diet, and perhaps you're having trouble digesting the increased fat intake? Maybe not, but if taking vinegar separately does the same thing, you'll know.

    Of course, the mixture of the vinegar with the oil within the mayo may help break down the oil for easier digestion, giving you better fat absorption.

    RWP
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
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  5. Sherlock

    Sherlock Boswellia for lungs and MC stabllizing

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    That's interesting because I've always craved vinegar, e.g. adding it to soups and even sometimes drinking it with water. Also, sour candy as a kid, which contains the similar malic acid. Malic acid is one thing recommended for fibromyalgia.

    The kicker: yesterday, when I was sick with a cold and having some slight muscle problems, I was craving mayonnaise.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  6. RWP (Rest without Peace)

    RWP (Rest without Peace) Senior Member

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    @outdamnspot @Sherlock

    Have either of you been tested for low stomach HCL? Of course, your symptomatic improvement is good enough proof to do it anyway.

    BTW: I eat mayonnaise every day (and take vinegar or pickled relish alongside to help digest its fat and the cheese I'm eating with it)!

    RWP
     
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  7. Sherlock

    Sherlock Boswellia for lungs and MC stabllizing

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    I tend toward high stomach acid, sometimes way too high after certain types of foods... like lots of peanut butter.
     
  8. RWP (Rest without Peace)

    RWP (Rest without Peace) Senior Member

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    Can I ask a further question? Usually, vinegar would exacerbate a person's high stomach acidity. Do you have GERD (acid reflux)? Just curious.

    RWP
     
  9. Sherlock

    Sherlock Boswellia for lungs and MC stabllizing

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    Sure, ask anything :) I do not have acid stomach all the time.

    Nope, no GERD for me. I do not fit the physical profile, either. However, I would get episodic reflux only at those rare times when my stomach is on fire from what I ate - and I am laying down.

    I had a very few bad episodes of extreme GI inflammation and uncharacteristically low BP. One time I forced myself to walk during one and I ended up regaining consciousness on the floor.
     
  10. RWP (Rest without Peace)

    RWP (Rest without Peace) Senior Member

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    OK, thanks for clarifying. I'm not sure if this is true for you, since you've not mentioned have a definitive diagnosis. From what I've learned over the last 31 years, it is actually not as common to have true high HCL. Among sick people, esp. ME, the more likely scenario is low HCL.

    The reason why I brought up GERD is that many people with that think that they are truly high, when they're actually low, and their esophageal sphincter isn't staying closed due to various factors, including low HCL in the stomach. My wife has esophagitis due to this tendency, and I have problems with the other sphincter, the pyloric one. When I did my diagnostic test in 1990, the lower (pyloric) sphincter wouldn't open properly due to my low HCL.

    They called it hypochlorhydria (low HCL) , but there's also achlorhydria (no HCL production). I know I probably don't have the latter, but it almost feels like it.

    You probably have heard all this before, but I just wanted to make sure. The reason why it's so important for us with ME is (among many other things than just this) that the lack of HCL makes pathogens more able to flourish in our digestive tracts, blood stream, etc.

    RWP
     
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  11. Sherlock

    Sherlock Boswellia for lungs and MC stabllizing

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    Thanks, I appreciate your observations.

    Btw I think the malic acid had immediate benefit for me, not because of the acidity, but because of something in the malic side. I don't think it has to do directly with ATP, either.
     
  12. RWP (Rest without Peace)

    RWP (Rest without Peace) Senior Member

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    Yes, I think so too. I craved sour candy as a kid also!

    RWP
     
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  13. Sherlock

    Sherlock Boswellia for lungs and MC stabllizing

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    Aha, that's interesting.
    Do you ever have muscle problems, RWP? Three years ago I would get slight muscle tears in my biceps just from a few minutes of holding a portable phone out in font of me on speakerphone. Very odd. I was not overall weak or wasting, e..g I would still do chinups.

    Roughly a year ago, I bought a bag of malic acid and that symptom went away very quickly. At first the taste was very entrancing to me. As the symptom went away, it wasn't entrancing anymore. After I'd used the malic acid, I mostly lost my daily craving for vinegar and for drinking plain, strong lemon juice, too. My guess is that for me those others were just a weak substitute for the malic acid.

    There are lots of times when the lower mind knows what to do. It's like when a dog gets sick and it eats grass. It's not because the dog had looked it up on the internet :rofl:

    Do you have daily mayo because you want to or by some plan? I'm sure you know that often Paleos need betaine hydrochloride because of hypochlorhydria.
     
  14. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    Just as an update, I continued my mayonnaise experiment where permitted: I eat it before bed and it can cause awful nausea, so it's not something I can do every night. I actually did sincerely notice an increase in energy the next day whenever I consumed it. However, two nights ago I tried it and had the most awful crash, akin to the crashes I get from other 'bad' foods like dairy.

    I'm a bit confused. It's a brand I've used before. It contains no dairy -- it's just eggs, vinegar, canola oil and 'herb' and 'spice' extract. Wondering if this is another food that's turned on me, or maybe just something in the product (my parents buy a couple of different brands).
     
  15. RWP (Rest without Peace)

    RWP (Rest without Peace) Senior Member

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    It's possible that the brand was inferior either in initial quality or storage or ingredients. We use only 1 (U.S.) brand, and it's expeller-pressed canola oil. That's significant because solvent contamination (from extracting the canola oil from the seeds) can encourage pathogenic organisms to multiply (I can get you a reference on that, if you'd like). The reason why I raise this is because you likened your symptoms to those after dairy, which are also known to contain pathogenic organisms (in addition to other possible triggers such as lactose, etc.).

    RWP

    P.S. I wish our brand were actually organic and made from another oil. Canola is cheap; that's why they use it. But it has some drawbacks I've read about (none serious. However, we're unaware of another U.S. brand that makes OG, expeller-pressed NON-Canola mayonnaise.

    Also, remember to provide additional dietary acid along with the mayo (if needed) to help break down the fat more easily. That is another possible option.
     

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