Volunteer opportunity: Organizing Phoenix Rising articles
This section contains all the articles that have been published by Phoenix Rising over the years. As you will see if you browse here, some of the articles are outdated--either the research has been superseded or retracted or the article features an event or campaign that is now in...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

"Lyme Disease May Linger for 1 in 5 Because of "Persisters"" Scientific American article

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Kyla, Sep 7, 2015.

  1. Kyla

    Kyla ᴀɴɴɪᴇ ɢꜱᴀᴍᴩᴇʟ


    I'm not really up-to-date on the Lyme stuff, but this seems like a fairly balanced article.
    ... And Sci-Am is a pretty major main-stream science publication!

  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

    So it sounds pretty certain that some of the Lyme cells can survive by going dormant, which makes them immune to the antibiotics until they reactivate. And that led to the successful trial of pulsed antibiotics in vitro. Next step is to try the same technique in infected mice.
  3. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

    "Identifying the causes of and treatments for post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome is 'one of the highest priority research needs in the field' according to C. Ben Beard...CDC..."

  4. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

    Ventura, CA
    Lots of LLMDS attempt different ways of timing doses of antibiotics, unfortunately no matter what is used most treatments are pretty hit or miss dependent on the patient. We need a real cure soon enough, something like extracting the protein from the western fence lizard to neutralize the infection entirely.
    Antares in NYC likes this.
  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    This is not the first time this research has been discussed on PR, but the article is new. Its entirely possible that antibiotic evasion is a big issue. It may also mean, because of biofilms and other factors, that detection is a problem. However its also likely that its no longer an acute infection, but an occult infection (yes, that is a term used in medicine).

    We used to think that, for example, latent herpes virus infections did nothing. We now know this is false. Latent infection, that is other than acute, can have serious and more subtle consequences, and without lots of scientific attention those consequences go unfound.
  6. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

    The article is new, and is doubly interesting because it incorporates a response to studies demonstrating persisters (from Lewis and Zhang; there is a third from Embers out of Tulane) by both the CDC, and from what some might think is the de facto spokesperson for the IDSA's position on Lyme, Wormser. The former made a statement which does not seem to be backed by any thorough search on US-Based NIH-sponsored studies. The latter sounded to me positively defensive.

    Whether one says it is an occult infection or simply late stage Lyme is to a degree a matter of perspective. Yes, science/technology, too, although that is its own onion. Also definitions. Also politics.

    And dollars.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  7. valentinelynx

    valentinelynx Senior Member

    Specifically Wormser said, "“There's been no evidence that this persister phenomenon has any relevance for animals or humans,” says Gary Wormser, chief of the division of infectious diseases at New York Medical College. First, he says, lab studies of B. burgdorferi cannot account for the potential effects of the body's immune system, which might be able to eliminate persisters once the brunt of the infection has cleared. Second, labs have yet to grow B. burgdorferi isolated from people treated with antibiotics, and that raises questions about whether the persisters are even viable and capable of making someone sick."

    One of the comments (BruceAlanFries) refuted Wormser's statement about "labs have yet to grow Bb isolated from people treated with antibiotics" by saying,

    "Contrary to Gary Wormser's assertion that labs have yet to grow B. burgdorferi isolated from people treated with antibiotics, researchers have been able to successfully culture Lyme spirochetes from people who have previously been treated with standard courses of antibiotics since at least 1993 when Lyme bacteria was cultured from Vikki Logan's tissue after extensive antibiotic treatment."

    The argument that the "persister phenomenon" may not be clinically significant keeps showing up. For example, in the UC Davis mouse study (full text here: http://aac.asm.org/content/52/5/1728.full) ...

    Antimicrob Agents Chemother. 2008 May;52(5):1728-36. doi: 10.1128/AAC.01050-07. Epub 2008 Mar 3.
    Persistence of Borrelia burgdorferi following antibiotic treatment in mice.
    Hodzic E1, Feng S, Holden K, Freet KJ, Barthold SW.

    the authors found persistence of spirochetes by PCR AND visualization in tissue, although they were unable to culture them. The UC Davis press release (http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=8584)was headlined:
    "Lingering Bacteria Don't Indicate Chronic Lyme Disease"

    as if that was the key finding rather than simply an opinion they felt necessary to express to avoid exciting the dreaded Chronic Lyme believers!

    Oddly, people aren't so quick to dismiss persistence of bacteria if the bacterium involved is Staph aureus:
    Medicine (Baltimore). 2003 Sep;82(5):333-9.
    Staphylococcus aureus bacteremia: recurrence and the impact of antibiotic treatment in a prospective multicenter study.
    Chang FY1, Peacock JE Jr, Musher DM, Triplett P, MacDonald BB, Mylotte JM, O'Donnell A, Wagener MM, Yu VL.

  8. msf

    msf Senior Member

    Wow, Scientific American - alternative Lyme is going mainstream!
    Antares in NYC likes this.
  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    There is another thread on Lewis's work on Lyme persisters here.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page