August 8th, 2018: Understanding and Remembrance Day for Severe ME
Have you heard of our Severe Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Day of Understanding and Remembrance? Please join Jody Smith in observing this day and honoring the 25% of those with ME/CFS who are most severely ill.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Low histamine eating plan , but with fermented probiotics ?

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Bansaw, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

    Found out today that I need to embark on a low histamine eating plan, but I also need to make sure I am getting probiotics.
    I've experimented with various probiotic beverages in the past like Kombucha and Apple Cider, Water Kefir and the like but found out my gut really reacted to the vinegar and whatever sugar was left in there.
    Now I guess I can say its the histamine in those beverages.

    The only thing I didn't seem to react to is raw cow milk kefir. No noticeable reactions there.
    But I am also wondering about beet kvass and other reasonably priced forms of natural probiotics that don't kick my histamine levels up. I am resisting spending money on capsule probiotics unless I have to becuase I spend so much money elsewhere on supps.
    Appreciate any input...
  2. Old Bones

    Old Bones Senior Member

    I, too, am embarking on a low-histamine eating plan after realizing the diet I adopted to heal my gut and digestive issues was causing a host of other problems due to its high-histamine content.

    I've recently discovered the following website: Alison Vickery is a holistic health coach who has herself suffered from histamine imbalance. You can download, for free, her Histamine Intolerance Food List. Beet Kvass is listed as "Very High" under the vegetables category.

    Like you, I have been trying to get my probiotics from homemade ferments -- cabbage, cow's milk yogurt, goat's milk kefir, fermented ketchup and mayonnaise. For several months I thought I was tolerating these OK, but now I'm questioning this assessment. Because, when I added several high-histamine foods to my diet for only three days over the holidays, my body became very "angry" with many histamine-intolerance symptoms. Now, I'm completely cutting out the ferments to see what happens, before adding them gradually back in -- one at a time in small quantities.

    Alison Vickery also sells a document called "The Therapeutic Use of Probiotics for Histamine Intolerance". We purchased it, having read on other websites that certain probiotics contain strains that produce histamine in the gut. It's incredibly complicated, since a probiotic that helps some, harms others. There are two capsule probiotics I'm currently rotating, trying to see if I can notice a difference in symptoms when using them. Yes, the good-quality probiotics are expensive -- usually about a dollar apiece, I find.
    Bansaw and justy like this.
  3. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

    Thanks - thats why I am looking at raw milk, not store bought pasturised.
    • In 2006, a study published in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology found that children who drank raw milk had significantly less instances of asthma, eczema and hay fever than those who drank pasteurized milk. Raw milk cut histamine by more than 50%.
    Thanks for the link, I'll look up that website.
    Old Bones likes this.
  4. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    I could only use commerical probiotics until I got my histamine issues under control. Three and a half years on, I now eat a spoonful of yogurt and sauerkraut every other day. :woot::thumbsup:And a slice of avocado most days.

    Also, if either of you knows you have MAO snp, you might look in my signature, last link for FMN. This form of B2 dramatically decreased my histamine problems. Seems there could be a relationship w/ MAO.

    Here are some other resources, and a good food list.

    The Many Faces of Histamine Intolerance
    Through my consults, I’ve realized that a majority of people’s histamine issues are most impacted by chronic stress response activation i.e. too much HPA activity.

    Psychological stress is only one of the dozens of reasons why your stress response is overactive. However, it’s often the most significant factor.
    Read the full list of reasons for chronic and see how many factors apply to you
  5. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

    Thats helpful ahmo, much appreciated.
    Is this the like the FMN you use (I couldn't find the one you mentioned in your FMN post): naturals 18mg FMN
  6. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

    I am also following a low histamine diet. My blog has some resources that might be of interest to you. As far as probiotics go, I tolerated Culturelle but it didn't seem to do anything for me. I did try some Lifeway Kefir (1 to 2 tablespoons per day) and wasn't sure it was helping me either. Certainly if I took more than that it seemed to give me histamine issues (insomnia, restless legs, agitation, headaches). I am currently trying Align and it does seem to have quieted the intestinal gnawing feeling I've had with legumes. I *seem* to be doing OK with it....but am still testing it. Most other probiotics that I've tried have given me histamine issues. I may retry the kefir or some yogurt but if so I'll keep it at 1 - 2 tablespoons per day. A friend of mine has done fine with small amounts of the Stonyfield vanilla or plain yogurt. I haven't tried it yet.
    Bansaw likes this.
  7. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

    Here are my (rough) notes on histamine and probiotics, plus "psychobiotics" or the research that links gut bacteria to anxiety / depression or ADD... the summary is my cross-referenced list of positive impact on histamine (e.g. helps degrade histamine) + positive psychobiotic

    SUMMARY :: both positive "psychobiotic" and low histamine
    • b longum / b infantis (..which is a strain of b longum) brand: ALIGN (bonus: helps prevent leaky gut)
    • l plantarum - brand: JARROW IDEAL BELLY (bonus: helps heal leaky gut)
    • l rhamnosus - brand: CULTURELLE (bonus: lowers CRP)

    • soil-based organisms
    • b. breve
    • b. infantis (e.g., ALIGN - which has casein); D-Lactate-Free; sub-species of b longum
      • helps prevent leaky gut
    • b. longum (KYO DOPHILUS - also includes l gasseri & b bifidum)
      • PSYCHOBIOTIC - reduces stress; vagal nerve
      • immune modulator; anti-oxident effect (from hayfever to minimizing flu/cold symptoms to lowering cancer tumor incidence & volume - notably, colorectal cancer)
      • anti-inflammatory effect on skin AND also reinforces skin barrier function (improves leaky gut??)
      • improves lactose tolerance & improves food allergies
      • scavenges free radicals
      • lowers serum cholesterol; improves cholesterol usage… unclear to me what exactly the mechanisms -> benefit(s) pathways
      • high colonic pH = colon cancer; b longum inhibits colon cancer by producing bile acid and cholesterol metabolites that lower intestinal pH
    • l. gasseri BNR17 (KYO DOPHILUS - also includes b longum & b bifidum)
      • reduces intestinal inflammation
      • HISTAMINE DEGRADING; reduces viral effects & allergies
      • reduces gut wall permeability
      • prokinetic agent, promotes weight loss
      • PSYCHOBIOTIC - improves ADD/ADHD; restores cognitive function, enhances memory
      • increase mucus in the intestines
      • oxalate degrading
      • lowers tyramine; no effect on histamine
    • l. salivarius - HISTAMINE DEGRADING
    • l. sporogenes - HISTAMINE DEGRADING
    • l. lactis / lactococcus lactis = ??
    • NOTE: in 2002, three previously distinct species of Bifidobacterium, B. infantis, B. longum, and B. suis, were unified into a single species named B. longum with the biotypes infantis, longum, and suis, respectively
    honorable mention:
    • Lactobacillus rhamnosus (i.e. CULTURELLE w inulin/chicory) D-lactate free; oxalate degrading
      • prokinetic agent & reduces diarrhea
      • lowers obesity
      • anti-inflammatory; lowers CRP
      • PSYCHOBIOTIC - GABA; vagal nerve
    • E. coli
    • Klebsiella pneumoniae
    • Lactobacillus bulgaricus
      • increases histamine
    • Lactobacillus casei
      • increases histamine & tyramine
    • Lactobacillus paracasei
    • Lactobacillus helveticus
      • psychobiotic (reduces anxiety); restores cognitive function; reduces ammonia, so try it??
    • Lactobacillus reuteri
      • lowers intestinal inflammation; increase pain tolerance; improves bowel function
    • Lactobacillus delbrueckii
    • Lactobacillus lactis - ??
    • Lactobacilus Fermetum
    • Streptococcus thermophilus
    • Enterococcus faecium
    • Enterococcus faecalis - causes depression
    Old Bones and PatJ like this.
  8. Prefect

    Prefect Senior Member

    Sorry about my lack of knowledge on this issue, but what happens when someone with this condition, let's say has sauerkraut, their symptoms flare up, and they take claritin? Does it work?
    ebethc likes this.
  9. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

    see the low histamine chef's website... recommendations for what to do for mast cell & histamine attacks

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page