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Long-term daily mHBOT and full recoveries w/ ongoing maintenance

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Jesse2233, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    thanks @Learner1

    remind me how many dives you've done and how often you do them?
     
  2. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    From a poster on the Lyme thread who no longer suffers from PEM

     
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  3. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    Another nice one
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
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  4. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    And one more...
     
  5. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I've probably done 90-100 and I go 2-3 times a week for 60-80 minutes.

    The stories you posted track with what I've heard elsewhere. Its helpful especially if there's an infectious agent that the oxygen can go after, an injury, or other condition causing hypoxia.
     
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  6. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    hey @Cort

    now that you're back I wanted to ask if you'd heard of any patients seeing benefit from long term mHBOT.

    I know you correspond with many people so I thought you might know
     
  7. gettinbetter

    gettinbetter Senior Member

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    This is certainly exciting news

    Anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area?

    You are in the Pacific Northwest where?
     
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  8. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    Hi Jesse

    I did a blog on HBOT. One small study showed that it could have excellent benefits for fibromyalgia so we have to be aware of that. It emanated from Israel I believe.

    I did a blog on it but according the rules of PR Forums I can't post a link to it. If you search Google for HBOT and Fibromyalgia it will come up as New Age Fluff or something or other. I'm sure that some people offered their comments :)

    Good luck!
     
  9. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    thanks @Cort I'll check out

    love all the blogs and interviews that you do, really looking forward to the Naviaux one
     
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  10. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    The more I research the more it seems HBOT is a promising modality for ME/CFS

    HBOT...
    • Improves mitochondrial function (1) (2)
    • Increases blood flow to the brain and other organs (3) (4)
    • Awakens sleeping neurons and helps heal neurological damage (5) (6)
    • Has anti-viral and anti-bacterial affects (7) (8)
    • Reduces the effects of autoimmunity (9) (10)

    • And of course there are these studies on the use of HBOT for fibromyalgia, CFS/ME, and Lyme (11) (12) (13) (14)
    I'd be interested to read the thoughts of @Woolie on the brain HBOT stuides, and @Jonathan Edwards on the immunological ones
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
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  11. Hanna

    Hanna Senior Member

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    I am going to ask certainly a silly question here : has ozone therapy comparative positive effects on ME/CFS than HBOT ?
    (though HBOT use for fibro study comes from Israel, there is very little chance to get this therapy here).
     
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  12. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Seattle
     
  13. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    It's a good question. It's the quantity and intensity of the introduction of oxygen into the body that differs. While oxidative stress is desirable on infective agents, a competent doctor will be monitoring for excessive oxidative stress and compensating.

    Ozone can be introduced simply in an IV bag with saline with a fast flow rate. I haven't felt any ill effects from it.

    10 Pass ozone involves pulling the blood out of the body, introducing ozone, and putting it back in the body, in a closed loop system.I know 2 people who have done multiple sessions over a few weeks with great benefit, and say it helped them more than anything else, one for Lyme and the other for Epstein Barr. The 2 machines are from Germany.

    There are also other modalities, discussed here, though I've heard anecdotally that hydrogen peroxide IVs are hard on veins, with the other modalities being less so

    http://www.oxygenhealingtherapies.com/ozone_oxygen_therapies.html

    Here's the literature I could find. There are no perfect studies, but you can get an idea of the benefits::

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21198421

    http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/aphmeeting/abstract.asp?MeetingID=778&id=94523

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S180886941630129X

    http://www.medsci.org/v08p0048.htm

    http://o2exercise.com/hyperbaric-oxygen-therapy-vs-ewot-and-improving-stem-cells/
     
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  14. Hanna

    Hanna Senior Member

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    Thanks a lot @Learner1 , I am going to "dive" in the stuff you posted :).
    Anyone tried both and could give some their impression ?
     
  15. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    You may also find this interesting. I've had it with ozone, and the effect is stronger than just ozone or HBOT, but less than 10 Pass:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4783265/
     
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  16. voner

    voner Senior Member

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    @Hanna,

    i've researched Hbot a couple times and it's intriguing to me, but the cost factor is way too expensive for me. here's a couple links about that paper that Cort mentioned. The researchers in Israel use a hard chambered, high-pressure Hbot, while most alternative practitioners here in the United States use soft-sided, lower pressure hBot. I think the home units that are sold are low pressure Hbot.

    Here is the paper that Cort mentioned:

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0127012

    here is a link to the Hbot center in Isreal that is mentioned.

    http://www.assafh.org/sites/en/clinic/hifrbaric/pages/default.aspx

    good luck on your explorations. I , for one, would love to hear of your experiences...

    I would still love to hear input from @Butydoc.
     
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  17. Butydoc

    Butydoc President

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    Hi Voner,

    It has been some time since I was a consultant for HBO. We had 7 or eight hard chamber mostly used for wound care where I was the director of the program. At that time, low pressure chambers couldn't deliver they same levels of oxygen content that a chamber that operates at 2ATM using 100 O2 could deliver. No idea how that translate into treatment for ME/CFS.

    Gary
     
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  18. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    I looked at treatment studies. Paper 11 talks about how double blinding in a HBOT trial is tricky, because patients notice increased air pressure, and pressurized air will substanially increase tissue oxygen levels by itself. The authors decided to do SPECT scans with blinded assessment to add some objectivity to the other subjective outcomes. They say there is good agreement between the SPECT and the questionnaires. I can't interpret SPECT scans so it's a bit difficult to interpret this paper. The authors acknowledge the problem with blinding and provide adequate justification for lack of blinding. This paper is about fibromyalgia though.

    In paper 12 there is no blinding and it's all subjective outcomes. There is no control group or attempt to reduce bias (as far as I can tell from the abstract). I can't find this on sci-hub. They do claim clear positive results but it doesn't mean much. It's about ME/CFS.

    Paper 13 also lacks blinding and has subjective outcomes plus a reaction time test. After 2 hours of treatment every day for a week, the effects on subjective outcomes were very small and only a few were (barely) statistically significant. There was no statistically significant improvement on a reaction time test. It's about ME/CFS.

    Paper 14 doesn't adequately report its results or describe its methodology and comes across as junk quality paper. It's also not on sci-hub. It's about chronic lyme.

    I quickly skimmed these papers so my analysis could be flawed. I don't think there is much to get excited about. Maybe paper 11 is reliable but that depends on the SPECT scan reliability (would not put much hope in that either). Paper 13 is pretty much a null result.

    I won't lose sleep over me not getting HBOT treatment, that's for sure.
     
  19. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    Thanks for taking a look @A.B. always good to have your thoughtful analysis.

    Your concerns on the treatment studies are valid, and given the blinding issues and low funding into both HBOT and ME research, it may be awhile before we have anything more comprehensive. I agree that it was nice to have the SPECT scans included in the fibromyalgia study, and wish the others had them as well.

    To me these treatment studies collectively imply "research is promising but not robust." My interest is increased when looking at the broader context of patient reports and the other HBOT studies on its biochemical effects.

    It's also worth noting that the studies were short term. The anecdotal stories are much longer term and have even better outcomes.
     
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  20. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    From someone in an HBOT Facebook group
     
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