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Little Breakthrough: There are different strains of EBV and some cause cancer

Messages
61
Hello,
In response to the above messages, please note that:

1- The vast majority of doctors are flunkies on the subject of Microbiology. This is one major reason why they cannot fathom the connection between the as-found infections in you and CFID. When you study medicine by yourself in a serious manner, you will gradually be able to separate those people who are knowledgeable and those who are flunkies.

2- The vast majority of doctors are not biologists at all and have no comparison in their intellectual capacity to study medicine and disease in a scientific manner. On the other hand, the majority of medical research is performed by Biologists who have been taught the scientific principle....the same principle which took European man out of the medieval ages and into the modern industrialized world of today. Since doctors cannot understand the scientific principle, they will continue to utilize Guesswork, Ignorance, Illogic, and other major tools available to them when trying to diagnose patients with diseases. To be fair, this does not apply to all, only the vast majority….:).

3- Since the doctors are aware of their incapacity to solve diseases, they have settled on fooling patients into thinking that diseases should be "managed" and "treated" after all , they are too stupid to be able to develop cures for disease. In fact this word "cure" is a very bad word in modern western medicine, because it would lead patients to think they have the right to be cured by doctors...........which is a detestable idea to modern medical practice. Now who in their right mind would imagine that doctors should have the competency to cure the diseases of patients.......?

Back to the subject of Herpes family viruses, bacterial infections and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: For anyone questioning these as the primary cause, i would highly recommend first getting self-educated using online resources, medical literature on the Herpes family members CMV, EBV, and HHV-6. For example, in the case of EBV, you don’t have the garden variety EBV; instead search for CEBV which is chronic Epstein Barr virus, that’s the one you have. Then study very carefully its impact on the human body and symptoms. Got that?
Next, study the Mycoplasma Bacteria family, particularly study virulent strains of Mycoplasma by searching for those words together. Study the longer medical papers on these and not only simple articles written for a general audience. After doing this for a while, you will soon realize that what quacks, swims, and walks like a duck……..is just a duck no matter what idiots have called it.

When the body is full of Herpes mutant strain viruses, Mycoplasma dangerous strain viruses, and then you lose all your physical energy fighting them, and this drains your Adrenal glands, and multiple coinfections occur as a result of your weakened immune system. then you now have Chronic Infection Syndrome because your body cannot get rid of these infections without an extremely well thought out program.

What is the difference between Chronic Infection Syndrome above and the so called “Chronic Fatigue Syndrome”…….Nothing at all.

Thank you,
Abdulrahman
 

msf

Senior Member
Messages
3,650
Hi Abdulrahman,

I guess part of your post was in response to mine, so I will respond in turn to that part.

CEBV isn't necessarily a different strain of the virus to 'garden variety' EBV, the name refers to a state of chronic activation I believe, unlike the chronic latency (if that isn't redundant) state in which it exists in most people. This chronic activation must be different from CAEBV though, since people who have this die very quickly. I have read most of the chronic EBV literature that pertains to ME, and to me anyway, it isn't clear that this is the trigger in most cases of ME. As I stated above, there is a relatively easy way to test this theory, using the relative affinity of EBV antibodies to determine whether there is any correlation between primary infection with EBV (or other herpes viruses) and the onset of ME. If the majority of ME cases are not caused by EBV primary infection (which seems unlikely. given the average age of onset of ME), then what is the role of EBV? Why do some patients suddenly start to suffer from its effects?

Re: Mycoplasma, I agree that this seems to be more common in ME patients. The question is, why is it more common? I think you might want to look into other bacterial infections further, particularly Lyme and its co-infections (one of which is Mycoplasma).

I also believe that most cases of ME (ICC criteria) are a result of chronic infection, but I do not see EBV or the other herpes viruses as the trigger for the majority of cases.
 
Messages
61
Hi MSF,
Please allow me to organize some thoughts so that the scientific clarity is high:

1. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome patients, whose primary Herpes family infection is EBV, do not have the standard EBV of the garden variety type which is defeated by the immune system after six months maximum in average patients. However, CFS patients are instead infected with a powerful strain of EBV that has little in comparison with the standard EBV. So they are more correctly termed as Chronic EBV or CEBV patients. The powerful CEBV strain that they carry cannot be defeated by the normal healthy immune system and the result is constant infection, however this does not mean that the infection is active 24 hours daily, 365 days per year. Some days it is active, and at other times it is inactive due to immune action but it is always resident and even while inactive it has severely compromised the host immune system by constant infection of white blood cells and damaging CD8+ cells. Under normal immunological serum testing the two viruses show exactly the same igG and iga, igM immune markers. The ability to separate one viral strain from another requires very highly specialized genetic marker testing. Many doctors then conclude that the Chronic Fatigue patient does not have a dangerous infective virus; he or she only has standard EBV. By this stroke of medical genius, the proof of dangerous infection is removed from the medical results. I hope this error in diagnosis is very clear otherwise the remainder of this discussion has no value. Note: we are not discussing here CAEBV infection, only CEBV.

2. Another subset of Chronic Fatigue patients may not have a CEBV infection, but they show high markers for HHV-6 viral infection, another Herpes family virus that has very similar immune destroying mechanisms. Again, because the majority of doctors are ignorant of microbiology, they will find many patients without an active HHV-6 infection marker in serum. However the HHV-6 virus even when inactive has already infected the immune cells and has greatly degraded their ability to function. Basically these immune cells are sick 24 hours per day with HHV-6 disease. The HHV-6 is a virus acting as a parasite living inside immune cells, Salivary glands, and some organs, even when the viral markers show an inactive HHV-6 in serum.

3. For those unlucky to have both CEBV and HHV-6 life is more difficult and the health of the average patient is worse than those infected with only one virus. Read below what occurs when both EBV and HHV-6 are active in the same human body. Each virus helps the other to activate and each acts to disable the host immune response so that the herpes virus family member can survive and colonize faster in the human body. Is it any wonder why the chronic Fatigue patient is severely depleted of energy?

4. Dr. Garth Nicholson PHD a well-known medical researcher has found an incidence of 60% infection with active EBV infections in a study of Chronic Fatigue syndrome volunteers. Similar studies have found not less than 54% infections with HHV-6 in Chronic Fatigue syndrome patients.

5. Mycoplasma and other Bacterial infections are another primary infective agent in a majority of but not all Chronic Fatigue patients. These can be infecting a CFS patient alone or with the above Herpes family viruses. These bacteria are again not the garden variety such as Walking Pneumonia [Mycoplasma Pneumonia] in the medical textbooks, but are very powerful strains that can kill and at the minimum, keep the immune system at bay for years and greatly depelte energy. Again too many doctors have little understanding of how to quantify the danger and physical damage that a dangerous bacterial strain can perform , as compared to a standard Mycoplasma bacteria that goes away after two weeks and does not return again, while those with a dangerous strain see constant severe infections and their immune system is overwhelmed.

Medical Proof of the above:

Key mechanism for the proliferation of Epstein-Barr virus discovered
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100114081547.htm
“However, the Epstein-Barr virus uses another strategy. Instead of putting all of its energy into immediate synthesis of progeny in the infected cell, it goes into a resting phase following the infection and thus prevents a reaction of the immune system. The virus infects cells of the immune system -- the so-called B cells -- first inserting its DNA into their cell nucleus. Whereas most viruses immediately start their lytic proliferation cycle and thus use the cell apparatus to replicate the DNA and to generate important structural proteins from the genes, EBV drives transformation of merely a few genes from the cell into proteins. These so-called latent genes are important for the quiescent phase: They see to it that the DNA of the Epstein-Barr virus remains stable in the cell nucleus while the cell itself proliferates”.


Role of Chronic Bacterial and Viral Infections in Neurodegenerative, Neurobehavioural, Psychiatric, Autoimmune and Fatiguing Illnesses: Part 2: Garth L. Nicolson and Jörg Haier
http://bjmp.org/content/role-chronic-bacterial-and-viral-infections-neurodegenerative-neurobehavioural-psychiatric-a
Other infections are also found in CFS/ME patients, such as viral infections: CMV,84 parvovirus B19,78 enterovirus79 and HHV-6.75, 77, 85-88 For example, Ablashi et al.88 found that 54% of CFS/ME patients had antibodies against HHV-6 early protein, compared to 8% of controls. Similarly, Patnaik et al.86 found that 77% of CFS/ME patients were positive for HHV-6 early antigen IgG or IgM antibodies, whereas only 12% of control subjects had IgG or IgM antibodies to HHV-6 early antigen. Recently a new retrovirus, XMRV, was found in mononuclear blood cells of 67% of 101 chronic fatigue syndrome patients compared to only 3.7% of healthy controls. Cell culture experiments determined that the patient-derived virus was infectious and could possibly be transmitted.89


EBV I: A Deficient Immune Response, Increased Levels of Epstein-Barr Virus Opens Up EBV Question in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Again
http://simmaronresearch.com/2014/03/1591/
Update on Human Herpesvirus 6 Biology, Clinical Features, and Therapy
EBV. Given their prevalence in a broad array of human tissues, particularly of lymphoid origin, it may not come as a surprise that HHV-6 and EBV are frequently detected simultaneously (34, 415). HHV-6 infection was shown to activate EBV replication from latency by a transacting mechanism targeting a cyclic AMP response element within the EBV Zebra promoter (126, 128), to increase the expression of the EBV early genes BZLF1 and BMRF1 through transactivation of their promoters (82), and to enhance EBV’s transforming capacity (84). In return, the presence of the EBV genome rendered B cells more susceptible to HHV-6 infection (82).


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC544175/
Dr Dharan Ablashi HHV-6A CFS/ME
http://www.biologischmedischcentrumbmc.nl/dr%20ablashi%20HHV6A.htm
In an article in the Journal of Clinical Virology (in press), Dr. Dharam Ablashi, one of the world's leading experts on HHV6, concludes that CFS (ME/CFIDS) patients are acquiring HHV-6A as a primary infection as adults and not reactivating it from childhood as many have hypothesized. He also found that the infection has been shown to downregulate the central nervous system, the cardiac system, and the cerebral systems. While variant B was found to be the culprit in multiple sclerosis, variant A was doing the damage in CFS and is found in similar numbers as affects those with AIDS (70%). Reporting on his newest discoveries at the New Jersey CFSA Conference, he said, despite prior reports to the contrary, there were no (0%) controls found with the infection of the A strain, although some healthy controls were found to have the B strain.


Dr. Holtorf on Infectious Causes of ME/CFS and Fibromyalgia
http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=16277
Numerous studies have demonstrated a high incidence of chronic infections in chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia.These include viral infections of Epstein-barr (EBV), cytomegalovirus (CMV), human herpes virus-6, (HHV-6), and bacterial infections such as mycoplasma, Chlamydia pneumoniae (CP) and Borrelia burgdorferi (Lyme disease).
There is controversy regarding the presence of active infection in these conditions because physicians, including infectious disease specialists, do not understand that the standard way to diagnose acute infections - an elevation of IgG and IgM antibodies - is not a sensitive means of detecting chronic infections in these patients (1-21).With an acute [new] infection, the body will start producing IgM antibodies against that infection and then start producing IgG antibodies after a few weeks so there is an elevation of both IgG and IgM antibodies. Chronic reactivating infections, such as those mentioned above, do not stimulate IgM antibodies, as they are not new infections but rather intracellular reactivating infections. So most doctors, again including infectious disease specialists, will tell patients who have elevated IgG antibodies that they had an old infection or previous exposure and that there is no evidence of, or they do not have, an active infection - because that is what they learned in medical school. This standard way of detecting active infections has clearly been shown to be inaccurate and misses the overwhelming majority of patients with active infections (1-21).

Thanks,

Abdulrahman
 

msf

Senior Member
Messages
3,650
I have seen most of those papers before, and I don't think you produced any evidence to support the theory that ME patients have a different kind of EBV to that present in other people.

I am not denying that the herpes viruses contribute to many ME patient's illnesses, I am just questioning whether they are the trigger. If they are not, which as I stated above, would be fairly easy to ascertain, I think research efforts should be concentrated on finding the trigger.

But I guess it doesn't matter where I think the research money (the little there is) should go, those who believe EBV is the trigger will put it into EBV studies, those who believe it is a purely autoimmune disease will put it into autoimmune studies, and those who think that bacterial infections are the trigger will put it into Lyme and other studies.
 
Messages
61
I think with a different logic. Its a logic based upon studying science and medical test data without getting brainwashed by doctors perceptions or illogical statements. In the case above where you say that you question if the Herpes viruses are the trigger for ME and CFID; lets take a hypothetical example:

You find a person on the street, with four bullet holes in their chest at various locations. This person is not dead, he is still alve. If you want to diagnose him, you may use modern medical terminology such as "Chronic Severe Pain Four Bullets in the Chest Disease".

Now, if someone were to ask you if this person's pain and observed severe symptoms such as blood on the street, is caused by the bullets....are you going to state that "We don't know what the trigger is for this mans pain, its true we found four bullets in his chest, but we have not found the gun and its trigger, so there is no evidence that the bullets are causing this man"s severe pain and other symptoms we see visually."

Why do you need to find a trigger, why do you need to find the gun? Is it possible that the bullets entered his body by walking in?

You already found four bullets in his chest...isnt this enough to destroy the mans health??

We already found numerous dangerous viruses within us which create havoc with the human body, why ignore them as evidence and run around looking for "triggers"?


Thank you and i apologize for any negative impression, i am only trying to explain a point,

Abdulrahman
 
Last edited:

msf

Senior Member
Messages
3,650
For the reasons I already stated. Your analogy is misleading, because everyone has herpes viruses (or bullet holes in their chests in your analogy) so the coroner would be likely to dismiss this as unimportant, seeing as the patient (or victim) had been walking around for years with bullet holes in his chest, as had everyone else. If you want to prove that they got the bullet hole just before they died (or got ME) then you have to do a study like the one suggested, and prove this is indeed what happened in a significant proportion of cases of ME.