The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Latest Th2/Th1 "right to left" immune shifters?

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by CBS64, May 6, 2012.

  1. CBS64


    My new doctor sent me a link to this article ( written in 2000 by a patient of Dr. Cheney's. The article lists the treatments for rebalancing the overactive Th2 side of the immune system in people with CFS. I think my doctor wants me to try the pine cone extract, and possibly the other treatments. But I am concerned about the fact that this article is 12 years old and I'm wondering if there are any more recent treatments for this issue.

    I have a follow-up appointment with my doctor this Tuesday, May 8th, so I would greatly appreciate any help with this before then, if possible.

    SOC likes this.
  2. CBS64


    I just read a few pages from Dr. Kharrazian's book (it's on thyroid issues, but has a section on Th1/Th2 imbalances). He says that compounds that dampen Th2 will stimulate Th1, then gives examples of those: astragalus, echinacea, beta-glucan, maitake mushroom. In addition to having CFS, I also have an autoimmune condition, which was caused by having mercury fillings removed improperly many years ago. As a result, I can't take immune boosters like those listed above, as they cause an autoimmune flare-up.

    So now I'm really confused as to how I'm supposed to dampen down the Th2 without causing a Th1 autoimmune flare-up. This is probably beyond the ability of most people on the PR forum to answer, but if anyone does have experience with this problem or know how to deal with it I would greatly appreciate the help.

    Thanks again
  3. adreno

    adreno PR activist

    It is Th2 which is mainly involved in autoimmunity.
  4. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

  5. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

    Don't know if this helps any, but the additional distinct Th17 subset was discovered in 2007, so it may not be a strictly Th2/Th1 issue anymore. My immune report says "Th17 (IL-17 & IL-23) cytokines affect anti-microbial immunity at epithelial/mucosal barriers & produce IL-22 which stimulates epithelial cells to produce anti-microbial proteins to clear out certain types of microbes. (Lowered) Th17 levels may leave the host susceptible to opportunistic infections."

    My Th1 related cytokines are normal as are my Th2 related cytokines (IL-4 and IL-5), but my Th17 related cytokines (IL-17 and IL-23) are very low. Also, my IL-10 is high. The immune report says, " IL-10 and IL-13 down-regulate the expression of Th1 cytokines, MHC class II antigens, and costimulatory molecules on macrophages, and enhance B-cell survival, proliferation, and antibody production."

    The point is, it may not be so simple as a Th2/Th1 shift. It may really be the Th17 issue that's the problem -- the susceptibility to opportunistic infections.

    If you have MCS or severe allergy problems along with inability to deal with intracellular pathogens (viruses, chlamydiae, rickettsiae, etc See: Intracellular Parasites, then a Th2/Th1 imbalance seems likely. However, if you don't have the MCS/allergy problems, you might want to consider Th17 issues.

    My (non-medical professional) thinking is that if the Th1 cytokines are NOT high, then down-regulating it might not be a good idea. Also, upregulating Th2 cytokines if they are already normal could push one into an autoimmune condition (I think). So it's worth being cautious about immune modulators.

    What to do about low Th17 cytokines? The best I've been able to get so far is "knock down the opportunistic infections and see what happens to the immune profile". :rolleyes:
    Ninan and Adster like this.
  6. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

    Virginia, USA
    I am very much interested in this! Gut issues are at the core of my problems.

    What test did you to get info about Th17? Thanks!

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