Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
http://phoenixrising.me/research-2/the-brain-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs/choline-on-the-brain-a-guide-to-choline-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-by-cort-johnson-aug-2005
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L-carnitine is working for me.

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by jpcv, Mar 19, 2018.

  1. jpcv

    jpcv Senior Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I started taking l-carnitine last week and after 3 days I felt better, less tired and less brain fog.
    I still have my limits, can´t cross them but i feel better now.
    I have tried d-ribose, coq-10, magnesium, whey and they didn´t help at all.
    Low carb diet was a good option, too.

    I think i´ll try NADH now.
     
    Sundancer, Gondwanaland, Joh and 3 others like this.
  2. NotThisGuy

    NotThisGuy Senior Member

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    do u take just carnitine tartrate or carnitine fumarate?
     
    Sundancer likes this.
  3. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    it may or may not be important for you to know that:


    Carnitine is a naturally occurring inhibitor of thyroid hormone nuclear uptake.

    Abstract
    Carnitine (3-hydroxy-4N-trimethylammoniumbutanoate) is a naturally occurring quaternary amine that is ubiquitous in mammalian tissues (concentrations in the order of mM).
    Based on limited studies of approximately 40 years ago, carnitine was considered to be a peripheral antagonist of thyroid hormone (TH) action. These interesting observations have not been explored. To study the biologic basis of this effect, we tested the following possibilities in three TH-responsive cell lines:
    (1) inhibition of TH entry into cells;
    (2) inhibition of TH entry into the nucleus;
    (3) inhibition of TH interaction with the isolated nuclei; and
    (4) facilitated efflux of TH from cells.

    On a preliminary basis we had verified that these cell lines (human skin fibroblasts, human hepatoma cells HepG2, and mouse neuroblastoma cells NB 41A3) take up 14Ccarnitine; however, there was no 14Ccarnitine uptake into the nuclei.
    Concentrations of unlabeled carnitine as high as 100 mM did not affect (125I)T3 binding to isolated nuclei or exit of TH from cells, thus excluding possibilities numbered 3 and 4.
    At 10 mM camitine, (125I)T3 and (125I)T4 whole-cell uptake was inhibited by approximately 20% in fibroblasts and in HepG2, but by approximately 5% in NB 41A3 cells. Inhibition of T3 nuclear uptake was evaluated in HepG2 and NB 41A3 cells.
    At 10 mM carnitine, inhibition of T3 nuclear uptake was disproportionately higher, namely approximately 25% in neurons and 35% in hepatocytes.
    At 50 mM carnitine, there was a minimal additional decrease in whole-cell uptake of either hormone but a marked decrease in T3 nuclear uptake.

    The latter inhibition was approximately 60% in neurons and 70% in hepatocytes.

    We are aware of no inhibitor of TH uptake that has such a markedly different effect on the nuclear versus whole-cell uptake.
    Our data are consistent with carnitine being a peripheral antagonist of TH action, and they indicate a site of inhibition at or before the nuclear envelope.
     
  4. jpcv

    jpcv Senior Member

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    there is interesting data showing that carnitine improves insulin sensivity in type II diabetes and lowers plasma lactate levels, possibly due to activation of pyruvate dehydrogenase( activity depressed in type II diabete).
    Its activity on PDH can explain why some patients with ME show some benefit in symptoms.
     
  5. dreamydays

    dreamydays

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    I find L-Carnitine Fumarate to work much better than other forms.
     
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  6. Strawberry

    Strawberry Senior Member

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    I've ordered this recently. I know of someone in the Netherlands that is now able to walk without her wheel chair from taking this. Hoping @jpcv keeps improving, and that you let us know the specific type please?
     
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  7. wiltedflower77

    wiltedflower77

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    I am going to try aceytl carnitine. Does anyone know is it best to take in between meals with just water or take with meals? Found conflicting advice online. Thanks
     
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  8. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    happy for you, and promising.
    I already bought me a bottle of carnitine fumarate and it's next on the list of things to try. I'll start soon.
     
    jpcv likes this.
  9. lafarfelue

    lafarfelue Senior Member

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    I started l-acetyl carnitine a few weeks ago based on this thread. Having seen carnitine pop up quite often here previously, I thought 'why not?!'. Pleased to say that it helped quite significantly and straight away.

    Seems to work fine with my morning meds and supplements, on an empty stomach. I take approx. 1/6 of a capsule daily (start low go slow!).

    It does affect my insomnia though, giving me the old excitotoxicty feeling in my brain and general physical agitation. (I subsequently have revisited GABA to see if it could help with sleep and it has.)
     
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  10. Shoshana

    Shoshana Northern USA

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    @jpcv

    What dose are you taking?
    And are you still experiencing improvements?
     
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  11. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    I started today, twice 500mg, no discernible effects yet. But then, it is a very hot day and in itself it is remarkable that I'm still more or less vertical.
     
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  12. jpcv

    jpcv Senior Member

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    2g/day. I improved and then reached a plateau.So I feel better than before, I get less tired than before doing my day to day activities, but it´s not enough to increase my activities.
     
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  13. CCC

    CCC Senior Member

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    Be aware that some people need the l-carnitine fumerate (LCF) and others need acetyl-l-carnitine (ALCAR).

    LCF crashes my son with massive fatigue. ALCAR has a slow effect, but it builds up and, after a week or two, we could see the difference.

    Because I'm the mum, I try these things out too: LCF gives me energy, ALCAR does very little. Ageing mums might be interested to hear that LCF also seems to help my hair grow as if I were back in my 20s.
     
    panckage, Shoshana, jpcv and 2 others like this.
  14. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    this morning I found myself doing a little chigung, the body just started doing it. ( before I fell ill I've been doing that for at least an hour daily)

    ah well...it felt so good! only maybe 3 minutes then I became tired, but feels as something in the body is coming alive again.
    Next week I'll go up to 4 caps ( 2 grams) and see what happens..

    I'm on fumarate now, but will try out the other version too.

    But see differences I do not get?
    I think carnitine is different from acetyl carnitine ( the why sells Now the carnitine variant for more money then the acetylvariant)

    and why is this bottle
    https://nl.iherb.com/pr/Primaforce-Alcar-Acetyl-L-Carnitine-Unflavored-Powder-250-g/58657

    so much cheaper then this one?
    https://nl.iherb.com/pr/Now-Foods-Acetyl-L-Carnitine-3-oz-85-g/373

    but happy, and even though it's hot here, I have not keeled over ( as happened last summer when i lay on my daybed for most of the day )
     
  15. jpcv

    jpcv Senior Member

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    Hohoho, , Maybe we could make some Money selling L- carnitine to ageing people.
    In my appointment , Dr Suzan Levine recomended Acetyl-l-carnitine, so I´ll finish my last bottle of L-Carnitine and change to A-L-carnitine to see if ther is any difference.
     
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  16. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    second day of carnitine, I'm enormously hungry...
    very strange, since I've fallen ill I rarely feel hungry, small eater, tend to get underweight.
    But today, I'm hungry and eating, and eating. I wonder how my gut will react on it, but it feels like a good sign, the body wants food after years of being fed because the mind knows its dangerous to become underweight...

    and it was even hotter then yesterday, but did not need to lay down ( came close to it though, phew, real hot)

    I'll keep you posted.
     
    jpcv likes this.
  17. robinhood12345

    robinhood12345 Senior Member

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    Carnitine is readily made in the body from lysine, and carnitines only role is to get long chain fats into mitochondria for oxidation which is not the major way me make energy anyway- glucose is. Carnitine would be in meat too. Deficiency is probably rare.
     
  18. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    I think Dr Myhill states that many patients with ME have profit from taking it. And I've seen a small piece of research that found that about half of the patients had profit.
    agree that it is found in ( red) meat, but i do not eat much, do not eat much meat and cannot digest red meat so this supplement is very useful, for me and others.

    Plus, I find that with the gutproblems I have, there are several problems concerning nutrients.

    first I eat not much but the need of the body is large
    there are a lot of foodstuffs that make me ill due to gut problems
    I think that the gut does not absorb the nutrients as it should.

    using supplements does me a world of good and carnitine seems to be a very welcome addition to the row of bottles.
    ---

    the idiotic hunger has gone back to normal, the stools have normalized so today I upped the dosage to 2 caps ( 1 gram) in the morning and keep it on 1 cap in the midday.

    I do feel better, I'm making plans ( which i do not have the energy for) but definitely feeling better. Doing some long disregarded ordering of small things, makes me feel good. My house is full of small ( and not so small) mountains of small things.
    I also did away with some of my former working clothing, that was a bit emotional but feels good too. Whatever happens, i will not get back to working the way I did, so I will not need these jackets anymore.

    But also the dizziness that always starts at the end of taking B12, now stays on longer. Interesting, so I'll keep it at this and see what happens to the dizziness.
     
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  19. mrquasar

    mrquasar Senior Member

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    I've seen other hyperthyroid patients taking l-carnitine to help reduce their thyroid levels so I would definitely take this word of caution seriously if your thyroid is at healthy levels.
     
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