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Ku Shen-Sophora Flavescens-Oxymatrine

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by Arise, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. Arise


    After reading about the potential of oxymatrine in ME/CFS, I decided to buy some Ku Shen Herbs from bristol botanicals (not the concentrated form). The way I take the herb is to boil it in water for about an hour and then strain the water into a cup and throw away the herb, then drink the water in the morning.

    So far I have not noticed any improvements but gives me diarrhea or more bowel movement in general. It is not a symptom that is associated with Ku Shen anywhere, so I was wondering if any one else experienced this or if I was doing something wrong.

  2. Steve4Andrea


    Just a guess but I think that the Oxymatrine would be extracted better in an ethanol or ethanol water solution. Often the important compounds of herbal treatments are not soluble in water and require ethanol to extract them. I make standard ethanol extracts by adding 100ml. of ethanol per 10 gr. of herb and then sealing in a jar and covering it in a water bath of about 170 deg. F. for several days (I use a small cooler to keep it in).

    Here is a link to a paper on using ethanol/water and microwaves to extract Oxymatrine- I've used the microwave assisted extraction technique before and I think it creates a better extract faster.
    Arise likes this.
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    The pure oxymatrine tablets and capsules that ME/CFS patients use contain around 200 to 300 mg of oxymatrine each, and these are taken several times a day, so over a day you might take a total of around 2 grams of oxymatrine.

    The normal Sophora flavescens root (Ku Shen) contains 2% oxymatrine, which means you would need to use 100 grams of the root each day (since 2% of 100 grams = 2 grams), in order to achieve the oxymatrine doses that are normally employed to treat ME/CFS.

    So you would need to use a lot of Sophora flavescens root to obtain your oxymatrine dose, which will work out to be quite expensive.

    The pure oxymatrine pills can be obtained here:

    Some Sources for Oxymatrine

    Equilibrant oxymatrine tablets (Dr John Chia's brand) available at equilibranthealth

    Alternative Medicine Solutions oxymatrine (300 mg oxymatrine per capsule) available here:

    White Tiger brand oxymatrine (200 mg oxymatrine per tablet) available here:
    chineseherbsacuatlantanaturalnutritionalsgoldenneedleonlinemaxnaturebiomedonline (Netherlands)

    I found the White Tiger brand (which contains both matrine and oxymatrine) caused dizziness for an hour or so after taking each tablet, whereas the Alternative Medicine Solutions brand (which contains only pure oxymatrine) did not cause this side effect.

    Note that Dr Chia says oxymatrine is not recommended for people with autoimmune tendencies or seizure disorders.

    There are a few things you need to know before embarking on an oxymatrine treatment for ME/CFS, so background reading is essential, and the following threads and articles may be a good place to start:

    Dr Chia: Oxymatrine, Oxymatrine, Autoimmunity, ME/CFS and FM, Quixotic: Equilibrant, Invest in ME 2010 conference transcript, oxymatrine effects, immunomodulators info.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  4. LuminousLioness


    Great information. In regards to the White Tiger Brand of Oxymatrine, I would avoid dealing with Acupuncture Atlanta (link #2) I have had repeated issues with this company. Life is challenging enough without having to add to it with a company that does not provide a satisfactory level of customer service. My last shipment of this supplement never did reach me as it was shipped by a company that I did not recognize (not the one I paid for) and the package did not have proper labeling (no identification of what it was or where it was coming from)... The company did not get involved to help find a solution and I was not refunded.
  5. shannah

    shannah Senior Member

    Years ago, I used to purchase Ku Shen (Oxymatrine) 5:1 concentrate from Max Nature in California.

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