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KCL education module on medically unexplained symptoms

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Dolphin, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    [Chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia and irritable bowel syndrome are the most common conditions mentioned when "medically unexplained symptoms" (or syndromes) are mentioned in general]

    http://keats.kcl.ac.uk/course/view.php?id=28600

    I haven't actually looked at this in detail myself but imagine I would get annoyed by it.

     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
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  2. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Looks like good reason to be deeply concerned about the quality of education students are getting from KCL. I wonder if that plays a role in KCL fighting against the release of PACE data? If they've been shown to be indoctrinating medical students in quackery, I wonder what implications this may have for them.
     
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  3. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    It's from this:
    so possibly not just for KCL-based students.
     
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  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    So could have wider implications, and affect something that they're planning to make money from?
     
  5. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Yes, imagine so.
     
  6. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    They are using PACE as example study to teach participants about medically unexplained symptoms? Is it because that's the best study they have? :D :rofl:
     
  7. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    A few slides from the PWP

    Still promoting Oxford criteria for CFS, that's just amazing, nobody outside the UK uses that...
    upload_2016-1-4_22-22-8.png

    Couldn't resist this one, their liking of improbable acronyms is just beyond reasonable
    upload_2016-1-4_22-25-8.png

    Wonderful activity programm.
    upload_2016-1-4_22-26-31.png
     
  8. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    This really does look bad. I would have expected my nurse specialists to come up with something a bit more professional on the PowerPoint.

    How do you teach how to improve skills if you do not yet know what being skilled is because you have no evidence of benefit?
     
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  9. Denise

    Denise Senior Member

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    Thanks for posting these.
    I can't use the like button for your post, because I really don't like these.... but I appreciate your posting them.
     
  10. Denise

    Denise Senior Member

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    I too suspect I'd get annoyed by this.
    Thanks though for alerting us to it.
     
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  11. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    The three spinning cogs are interesting. I note how a pathology cog is missing. The message is that physical symptoms can only arise as result of behaviour. Other possibilities are excluded.
     
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  12. Denise

    Denise Senior Member

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    ;)
    Probably because this module is about mental health, not diseases that have a pathology to them.
     
  13. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    It's an intriguing variant on the vacuous diagrams we have in immunobabble slides. At least in immunobabble slides the arrows tell you which way things are going. This one has the added advantage that it does not even tell you that - so it cannot possibly be wrong. Very clever.
     
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  14. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    This is the core of what the BPS lot do, isn't it — talk about the best therapeutic responses to something whose existence they have only conjectured. It's an incredibly effective strategy. People who don't know any better assume that the theorised condition must exist or those clever people from august institutions wouldn't be discussing it in this way.

    I'm not sure which depresses me more: that they're doing it or that so many people swallow it.
     
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  15. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Just acting as if they had answers, knowledge, and results is apparently all that's necessary to make a career in this area. Null result? Doesn't matter, juggle outcomes and definitions until there's at least a tiny effect at some point, and then go on citing that study as evidence for your ideas. Eventually there's a sizable stack of studies that agree on several points and look impressive to the average person.

    Peer review should ideally prevent this sort of thing but that is dysfunctional as well. Harder to explain how and why. Maybe the only peer reviewers with the "right skills" are people also peddling dubious bullshit in a similar manner and therefore unable to draw attention to certain problems?
     
  16. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    It occurs to me, AB, that we were being quite prescient the other day with "Mime Therapy for MUS" and "coming to an NHS Trust near you" ... http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...lained-symptoms-in-england.41961/#post-678524

    I don't know. Is this what Nye Bevan had in mind?
     
  17. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    Sure is. In terms of the number of lives they are affecting with this shite, they are among the most powerful people who have ever lived, and they have done it all with rhetorical sleights-of-hand.

    Senior politicians and public relations consultants the world over would willingly give their first born in order to possess that level of persuasion, and immunity from being held to proper account for its consequences.

    I hope some budding medical historians are paying attention to this saga, coz there is rich pickings, more than enough upon which to build a few solid careers.
     
  18. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    I clicked on one of the modules regarding "Goal Setting" and it showed a staged interview - a doctor "helping" a patient with his sleep problems, and get this, the patient works at a pub in the evening and drinks alcohol regularly. The title under the video is
    CFS: How not to get into arguments with the patient

    Good to know that good patient management is equated with "not getting into arguments" and recommendations to cut back on drinking.
     
  19. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    If that is the best study then the rest must be atrocious.
     
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  20. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    Three cogs arranged that way are a total failure. They don't "interact". They lock up. They wouldn't move. The epitome of bad design. So what message are we supposed to take from that?
     
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